"Blu-ray Disc" vs. "HD DVD": Neither Is Winning

[Sasq]

pie > cake
I like ice cream, my favorite is green tea actually.

Oh and this really has gone on long enough - click

[Hulk]

"The VUDU box costs $295.00. Rentals range from $0.99 to $3.99, and purchased movies range from $4.99 to $19.99."


Can you say DEAL BREAKER!

No thanks but I'll pass on the Dudu. If they were serious about this they would give the Dudu box hardware away, with a refundable fee on your credit card to prevent theft. The fact they are charging so much for so little tells me that have very little financial backing. Like most of this big thinking up starts.

Right now the only good solution for me as far as downloads is Netflix. And as they transition from disc to downloads I will most likely transition with them. You see the difference is they are a huge company that is making money and if they start to see their customers flee I bet they will react quickly.

Elie brings up a great point regarding lossless multichannel audio like TrueHD. That ALONE requires more bandwidth than most people have at their disposal.

And I for one do not like the idea of DRM protected download that are registered to one computer and must be de-registered to be moved to another computer. No thanks I'd rather rip the movie I bought on disc to my computer via "Fair Use" and move it around as I please.

Plus I like the covers of the discs.

The mass market is fine with terrible sounding 128kbps audio compression and 12mega pixel digital cameras that look like crap due to the tiny sensors. Next they will push 4Mbps "HD" downloads on us.

No thanks. I think there will be enough people around that demand to see and hear better quality.

If it's good enough for Jerry then I wish him the best. He's found his heaven.

I'd like a little higher quality. That's all I'm saying.

[Jerry Jones]

1. Apple TV

http://www.apple.com/appletv

2. Vongo.com

http://www.vongo.com/

3. Xbox 360 LIVE Marketplace:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/marketplace/moviestv/

4. GUBA:

http://www.guba.com

5. VUDU:

http://www.vudu.com

6. AxiomTV:

http://www.axiom.tv/

7. Akamai:

http://www.thehdweb.com/

8. Movielink:

http://www.movielink.com

9. Amazon unbox:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/video/help/faq.html/104-0508629-0067901?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=0KF7QXH1GPVWAK9GXS00&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=298517001&pf_rd_i=16261631

10. FANFARE:

http://www.sandisk.com/fanfare/intro/

11. FiOS TV:

http://www22.verizon.com/content/fiostv

12. AT&T U-verse TV:

https://uverse1.att.com/un/launchAMSS.do

13. TiVo HD:

http://www.tivo.com/whatistivo/tivohd/index.html

14. Joost:

http://www.joost.com/

15. hulu:

http://www.hulu.com/

16. Veoh Networks:

http://www.veoh.com/

All over the world, consumers are celebrating the HD downloads revolution and they're throwing off the chains of HD optical disc slavery.

They're shouting in the streets "I'm mad as H___ and I'm not going to take it anymore!"

Heck, even Toshiba knows that "HD DVD" and "Blu-ray Disc" are as dead as DISC-o.



Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

the Dolbly Digital HD will not even remotely be a part of the movie.

Vudu specifications: http://www.vudu.com/product_specs.html

Audio Format:
Source: Dolby® Digital Plus Out: Dolby Digital 5.1

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

the Dolbly Digital HD will not even remotely be a part of the movie..

Apple TV specifications: http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html

Audio formats supported
AAC (16 to 320 Kbps); protected AAC (from iTunes Store); MP3 (16 to 320 Kbps); MP3 VBR; Apple Lossless; AIFF; WAV; Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound pass-through

Apple TV HD movie rentals: http://www.apple.com/appletv/rentals.html

Movie rentals on Apple TV are $2.99 for library titles, $3.99 for new releases, and only a dollar more for stunning HD titles with Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

I can't even figure out how it works from the website.

Vudu FAQ:

http://www.vudu.com/product_faq.html

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

people who download are not getting 1080i or 1080P movies, they are downloading crap, I know, I've seen many examples.

Are you sure about that, Elie?

1080/24p Vudu downloads:

http://www.vudu.com/product_movies.html

HDTV Magazine review:

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/columns/2008/02/showdown_apple_tv_vs_vudu.php

With VUDU, every single movie on their "system" has a starter stub stored on your box already, roughly the first 30 seconds of every movie. When you buy, or rent, a movie that starter stub begins playing while the box connects to dozens of other VUDU boxes on the internet to download the subsequent segments of the movie.

The video quality was excellent, even for SD fare. All of their content is encoded at 24 fps. SD video is 480p/24 and encoded with H.264 Main Profile while all HD content is 1080p/24 encoded with H.264 High Profile. In all honesty, when I first began testing the unit with SD programming back in November, it was not obvious to me that what I was watching wasn't HD. I've looked at all the major players in the movie download market, and the quality they are getting with their SD video is unsurpassed. And the quality of their HD content rivals that of packaged media...

Their user interface is flawless. This system is so easy to use, I can put the remote in just about anyone's hand and they won't have a single question about what to do next. As advertised, their content begins playing immediately. Even for HD content, all that is needed is a 4 Mbps connection to be able to watch HD content instantly.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Elie]

you mean, all these people everywhere on the world downloading (99.X% illegally) the latest (and older) movies don't exist? How much of the current bandwidth consumed at ISPs by consumers is composed of P2P traffic again?
This shows that whether digital distribution takes off is, imo, not dependant on consumer demand.

I know these downloads exist, we have discussed streaming/downloading on this long winded thread for ages, and again, people who download are not getting 1080i or 1080P movies, they are downloading crap, I know, I've seen many examples. and won't get into the argument about "oh downloadable movies are top notch quality" anymore because there is no such thing, unless people are content with the quality.

And the question whether BluRay will be dead as a disco? Currently sales for HD format are completely neglicable compared to DVD sales... If digital downloads start being heavily promoted soon, then I don't see why they don't have chance to kill off BluRay.

I will tell you the reason for that...

1-The primary reason was the format wars, people didn't want to fall into the marketing hype from both camps and were holding off waiting for an end, well it has now ended and consumers are flocking to store buys cheap HD-DVD players that are now discounted and Blu-Ray players.

2-Not many people own TV's to playback HD to begin with, give it time and it will increase substantially

3-for the most part, DVD quality (even upscaled) is acceptable for many people, so the time it takes to to migrate to HD will be slower, but will eventually happen.

Then again, it all comes down to the current people in power when digital distribution will take off. For music, it already is happening. I don't think that they can ignore the massive illegal movie downloading for much longer either...

Look...music downloads P2P etc, has been going on since the invention of MP3's, is MP3 an high quality audio format? If you say yes, then downloading movies from the sites Jerry mentioned above will be ok for you, but not acceptable buy others.

Will movie downloads continue...yes, but the quality will not be there, the extra content the Dolbly Digital HD will not even remotely be a part of the movie.
When I say it will take years and year, I mean the following...

It may take years for hollywood to provide 1080P or higher res video, which includes a Dolby Digital or DTS HD audio stream, bundeled with all the extra content like you get in DVD's today, and a means to burn that content to a disc for storage (archiving)
When that takes place I will be the first one to post it on MURC.


Cheers everyone and peace.

[Mehen]

Can we please close this thread? It's just gonna get uglier.

[Hulk]

Jerry,

Please don't start continually posting that list of crap downloads again. We've been through it all before.

Since VUDU is a new one you're promoting I had a look at it. Hey I'm all about HD downloads if the price is right, the selection is there and the quality is good.

Well first of all you have to pay $295 for the hardware to get going!!!!

Are they out of their minds!!!!!!!!!!!!

$295 on hardware for a system you can't even try out. And they won't even show you a list of all the movies they have available.

Let's be honest Jerry, digital downloads will eventually be the way to go. But you also have to admit that most of these pioneers will go the way of the Dodo, and Dudu probably will too. So I am to invest $295 in them? Crazy.

I can't even figure out how it works from the website. Can you help me. So I spend $295 on the hardware and then I get a lifetime membership to watch movies or something or is there a rental fee on top of that?

So how does this work Jerry? $295 plus rental fees?

And just how do they do HD with 4Mbps? The disc manufacturers need to learn about compression from them because it takes them about 5 times that bandwidth to do 1080/24p.

Right now I'm paying $9/month for Netflix DVD, HD-DVD, and Blu-Ray rentals plus streaming of their content available. No extra charges and no hardware to buy!

Like 720p optical discs will eventually disappear, but it's gonna be a while. In fact this thread has been going for 4 months. And for four months you have been WRONG! People have been using optical media for all four of those months. I will keep count of each day you continue to be wrong. You made the statement they are dead. Not almost dead, or going to be dead but dead. And you are dead wrong.

Wrong. 4 months and counting Jerry.

Wrong for 4 months and counting Jerry.

March 15 will be your 5 months wrong anniversay Jerry. Unless of course we see all optical media vanish in the next 3 weeks!

You can try to put words in my mouth all you want but I like a vibrant marketplace with lots of technologies competing for my money.

It's great you want Apple to dominate all technology just stop shoving it down my throat. I like to look at all options thank you. And right now optical disc is a good choice for many people. And so is streaming. As I said I do both. When I can stream HD from a convenient source like Netflix at a good price I'll do it and stop renting discs. Right now all the lastest titles in HD seem to be coming out in disc first.

Like I said 4 months wrong and counting.

Tick .. tock.. tick... tock...

[dZeus]

I agree with Paul, we're not even remotely prepared for downloads yet, it'll take years and years!

Disc media all the way

you mean, all these people everywhere on the world downloading (99.X% illegally) the latest (and older) movies don't exist? How much of the current bandwidth consumed at ISPs by consumers is composed of P2P traffic again?
This shows that whether digital distribution takes off is, imo, not dependant on consumer demand.

It all comes down to where the highest margins can be made for all people currently involved, and/or if they allow themselves to be cut out of the chain that goes from movie studio to consumer buying a DVD in a shop.

And the question whether BluRay will be dead as a disco? Currently sales for HD format are completely neglicable compared to DVD sales... If digital downloads start being heavily promoted soon, then I don't see why they don't have chance to kill off BluRay.

Then again, it all comes down to the current people in power when digital distribution will take off. For music, it already is happening. I don't think that they can ignore the massive illegal movie downloading for much longer either...

[Jerry Jones]

You may wish to stop downloads from happening, Elie, but -- obviously -- it's just going like gangbusters now; the genie is out of the bottle and there's no putting it back in:

1. Apple TV

http://www.apple.com/appletv

2. Vongo.com

http://www.vongo.com/

3. Xbox 360 LIVE Marketplace:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/marketplace/moviestv/

4. GUBA:

http://www.guba.com

5. VUDU:

http://www.vudu.com

6. AxiomTV:

http://www.axiom.tv/

7. Akamai:

http://www.thehdweb.com/

8. Movielink:

http://www.movielink.com

9. Amazon unbox:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/video/help/faq.html/104-0508629-0067901?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=0KF7QXH1GPVWAK9GXS00&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=298517001&pf_rd_i=16261631

10. FANFARE:

http://www.sandisk.com/fanfare/intro/

11. FiOS TV:

http://www22.verizon.com/content/fiostv

12. AT&T U-verse TV:

https://uverse1.att.com/un/launchAMSS.do

13. TiVo HD:

http://www.tivo.com/whatistivo/tivohd/index.html

14. Joost:

http://www.joost.com/

15. hulu:

http://www.hulu.com/

16. Veoh Networks:

http://www.veoh.com/

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

it'll take years and years!

[Elie]

I agree with Paul, we're not even remotely prepared for downloads yet, it'll take years and years!

Disc media all the way

[Jerry Jones]

But 60p *is* required if you want the best.

Your point all along has been that you have the best.

Well, if you're only able to watch 1080/24p, then you're not really seeing the so-called "Full HD" that is the marketing buzzword used in the stores to sell 1080p merchandise.

The problem with 1080/24p is that it's really only appropriate for film content.

There are many types of events... sporting events, for example... that would look far better if recorded in 1080 at a full 60 frames per second (1080/60p).

So if you happen to be a sports fan who does *not* care about Hollywood films, but *does* care about sports programming, then there's not going to be much benefit realized by the purchase of a 1080p TV... at *any* viewing distance... because -- as I've demonstrated with numerous links earlier in this thread -- the American sports networks are shooting sports with 720/60p format cameras.

Yesterday, I got curious and looked around on some discount store Web sites and they're still keeping the prices high for 1080p HDTVs -- even with the cheaper brands that don't feature the best internal processing.

So -- in some circumstances -- it might make more sense for sports fans to consider a 720p HDTV from one of the top manufacturers as these HDTVs can be had for less money with top quality internal processing/components.



Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

You can see the benefits of 1080/24p. 60p is not required.

[Jerry Jones]

http://www.vudu.com/

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net