"Blu-ray Disc" vs. "HD DVD": Neither Is Winning

[Jerry Jones]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/technology_news/4244896.html

Apple's high-definition movie rentals could be just that: the final nail in the coffin in a format war few care about and nobody wants. Now that most major studios are on its side, Blu-ray may have "won" the last several rounds, but players are still expensive (the cheapest stand-alone one announced so far is still $350), and discs are both pricey and limited (if you aren't into the latest big-budget new releases, good luck.) At $229, the Apple TV is reasonably priced, and it pulls in new and old releases from every major studio. And because it's a lot easier (and a lot less risky) to throw a film on a server than to mass-market it in a brick-and-mortar store, we can expect the available library to dwarf anything available on Blu-ray.

And did we mention that Apple TV does a whole lot more than just let you rent movies? Because it does, from surfing the Web to streaming music and movies from your purchased-for-keeps iTunes library.

So Blu-ray, you may win the war over HD DVD, but gloating time is over. Just like the iPod essentially knocked Sony's Walkman line out of the mobile music business, the updated Apple TV could be Blu-ray's worst nightmare.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Evildead666]

I'm just waiting for a reasonably priced combo drive to appear for my PC.

Then i'll be happy to at least try out one of the discs, or both, and backup some of these drives.

[Mehen]

I'm just waiting for a reasonably priced combo drive to appear for my PC.

Then i'll be happy to at least try out one of the discs, or both, and backup some of these drives.

I think they are somewhere around $250 still.
Correction, $220

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=26553&vpn=GGC-H20L&manufacture=LG%20Electronics&promoid=1088

[paulw]

Jerry.

Vudu Test Confirms HD Download Worries (Plus: What Needs to Be Done)

http://gizmodo.com/352392/vudu-test-confirms-hd-download-worries-plus-what-needs-to-be-done

[Jerry Jones]

The Blu-ray Disc camp wants your money.

That's the message I keep getting from these people who decry HD downloads.

The problem with high definition is that it never stops.

Guess what?

Blu-ray Disc -- 1080p -- is already being laughed at by the people who think the future is in an even *higher* definition format.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/5335870.stm

"The system has 16 times the resolution of current HDTV."

What are the people behind these high definition technologies hoping to accomplish?

They don't want "pixel envy" to cease because they think that is how most gullible people will be separated from the cash in their pockets.

I'm totally satisfied with 720p as long as the optics are good and the shooting is good and the production values are good and the encoding is good.

Resolution -- and this fanatical emphasis on ever-increasing frame sizes 1080p, 2k, 4K, etc. -- is just a dumb, phony marketing ploy, in my opinion.

I won't be falling for it. Heck, I still enjoy watching good standard definition as long as the production values and the encoding are good.

I went to my local Apple store earlier this evening and I checked out an Apple TV in action.

It was pretty impressive.

I'm getting closer to a decision.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Jerry Jones]

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/12/apple-tv-take-2-take-two/

Engadget's take on the new, updated Apple TV.

...Did someone say 1080p output? Oh yes, it's finally enabled!...

...Our HD movie was ready for playback within a minute of starting the download. Very nice...

...Renting movies is absolutely a snap...

...Picture quality is pretty good. Not amazing, but pretty good...

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Tjalfe]

why bother with 1080P when they cripple the movies with low bit rates?

[Jerry Jones]

It is possible to achieve very high quality with relatively low bit rates.

This is especially true if one uses top quality encoders.

I have a standard definition Star Trek episode downloaded via the iTunes store and seeing is believing.

It's 640 x 480, but it looks like a 720 x 480 MPEG-2 DVD.

My Sony HDR-UX1 AVCHD camcorder achieves pretty nice quality using a 12Mbps bit rate -- not bad for an H.264/MPEG-4 encoder that hasn't been optimized to the degree that MPEG-2 has been optimized over the past ten years.

Don't swallow the low bitrate myth; could that be another marketing ploy by the Blu-ray Disc camp?

These Apple TV movies are starting out at 720p.

But I'm certain 1080p will follow, especially since support for the standard now shows up in the Apple TV menu.

That's a pretty good hint.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

why bother with 1080P when they cripple the movies with low bit rates?

[Hulk]

Jerry,

So do I interpret your answer as you don't watch any HD streaming content?

And you DO still use optical discs to view movies?

Hmm.

[Jerry Jones]

You are quite incorrect, Mark.

I have two high definition 720p flat panel TVs and I watch HD downloads and I watch HD video recorded by my high definition AVCHD Sony HDR-UX1 camcorder and I watch high definition TV (ATSC) broadcasts, including the high definition documentary broadcasts of my local PBS station.

In addition, I have a huge collection of standard definition DVDs from "The Sound of Music" (musicals) to "Once Upon A Time In The West" (westerns) to "The Outer Limits" (TV series), etc. Much of this type of content is not even available on high definition DVD -- not on "Blu-ray Disc" and not on "HD DVD."

So I think it would be quite stupid -- for me and not necessarily for you -- to invest in what I perceive to be obsolete high definition DVD optical disc technologies.

Mark, you can brag all you want about having bought a top-of-the-line Sony 1080p HDTV.

But -- frankly -- I'm not going to fall for the 1080p b.s.

Yes, you spent more money than I did and you have more expensive HDTV monitors than I have.

Good for you.

But does that give you the right to needle people who have chosen to be more frugal and buy 720p HDTV monitors?

Does it give you the right to question whether they are even watching HDTV at all?

Are you trying to suggest that I don't know what HDTV looks like?

Mark, I could engage in this kind of behavior.

I could needle you about whether or not you even own a high definition consumer or prosumer camcorder.

Do you? Or are you waiting for the first "1080p" model?

If so, then buy the new 1080p JVC model and let's hear how good it really is.



I'm perfectly happy with 720p.

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Evildead666]

The whole point of the new UltraHD standards is to enable even larger screens.
My 32" 720p screen is fine for me.
If I wanted a 36" screen or larger, i'd have gone 1080p.

Above 50" I would probably like an even higher resolution. 4K x 2K maybe...

Downloads are not yet GLOBALLY ready for 720p content, let alone 1080p and higher.
A good encoding of a movie in 720p in h264 is DVD-R5 size.
Its 2-3 R5's for the same movie in h264 in 1080p.
4x that for 4K x 2K.

BluRay will have to be used, since HD-DVD is no more, and downloads will not really be full HD.

We'll have very good 720p quality, so as to not walk all over the 1080p and upwards discs...
The majority of people will be able to download and watch in 720p, quite happily, and some others will want a higher resolution for their huge TV's, and will buy/rent discs.

That way they can sell on all the markets.

[Evildead666]

On a side note, I rent a LOT of DVD's at the local store, and some of the 2hr films are less than 4.7Gb...to me that is a lack of quality...deliberate to make HD look good ? SO they upscale bad ?

I'll try to get a screenshot at some point...

[ND66]

I'm just waiting for a reasonably priced combo drive to appear for my PC.

At $359 it's not much more then I paid for my Pioneer 4X DVD burner. Paid Almost $300 at CDW, and it wasn't that long ago......


.

[Jerry Jones]

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/apple-tv-20-vs-blu-ray-dvd-hd-cable-the-comparison/

Apple TV 2.0 vs. Blu-Ray, DVD & HD Cable: The Comparison

We used a very recent 40” Sony Bravia XBR4 television with 1080p and 120Hz support for our testing, and set all of our HDMI-connected playback devices to display at their best possible resolutions: the Blu-Ray Disc player was a PlayStation 3 console at 1080p, the Apple TV was set to its new 1080p mode, the Scientific Atlanta cable box was set to its maximum of 1080i, and the DVD player was the same PlayStation 3 at 1080p, set on normal upscaling mode. Four test screens were picked as representative of the film’s content, and a Nikon camera was used to shoot each paused screen at 1/80 of a second.

What We Saw

While the Blu-Ray version was the clear winner of the bunch, we were surprised by how well the Apple TV fared in comparison to the other formats we tested.

What impressed us about the Apple TV rental was that the video, despite needing to be sent over the Internet rather than residing comfortably on a DVD or Blu-Ray Disc, exhibited little in the way of motion blur or compression artifacts—it looked as good as could be expected from 720p, which is to say comfortably better than DVD quality, but shy of the best a Blu-Ray Disc can offer on a top TV. The Apple TV video also contained a Dolby Digital 5.1 surround audio track, which the HD cable version did not, and its sound didn’t suffer from obvious compression issues like the cable version did.

It’s also worth noting that the Blu-Ray Disc’s biggest video and audio advantages are real, but will be lost on many HDTV users. Since the majority of HDTVs sold before 2007 were not capable of displaying true 1080p output—most were capped at 720p or 1080i—the superior video quality of the Blu-Ray versions of movies won’t be noticeable on such sets, and the difference between the Apple TV and Blu-Ray versions will be less noticeable. If you’re using a TV without the ability to display 1080p video—especially if you don’t have a receiver capable of decoding the Blu-Ray Disc’s DTS-HD signal—an Apple TV rental will be an almost complete substitute for renting the Blu-Ray.

"HD DVD" and "Blu-ray Disc?"

Dead as DISCo.



APPLE TV: http://www.apple.com/appletv/

Jerry Jones

http://www.jonesgroup.net

[Evildead666]

At $359 it's not much more then I paid for my Pioneer 4X DVD burner. Paid Almost $300 at CDW, and it wasn't that long ago......


.

Thats still a lot of cash....
I could get a TB of storage and still have some cash left over...

When they get to be 100 quid or less, 150 Euros max...then thats a good price.