New Canon video cameras

[dchip]

MainConcept AVCHD

The last time I looked at MainConcept website they had gotten a bit pricey. Gone are the days of getting a versatile encoder for $49. I bet the one you mentioned is $300 or more.

[dchip]

I am so glad to be done with capturing tapes. Or loading projects back to tape for archiving purposes. Blah. I remember doing a project for a local school district and it was pure hell. Editing video from different cameras, some analog, some DV. Color correcting. Mixing Huffyuv and DV on the timeline. There were lots of issues in the NLE and the capture utilities.

Nightmares I remember well, too. I recall one four camera wedding that nearly put me in a straightjacket from all the problems that came up. One camera, which was another Canon something or another that I had, was not recognized in Vegas3, but the tape from it did not look good in the other cameras that were recognized. I ended up improvising somehow. Nightmarish capture process with more glitches than I want to remember. The poor Canon Optura Pi (my new webcam) started acting funny right after that whole mess. I stopped fooling with weddings after that.

One thing I assume about SDHC flash video is that no matter what it is shot in, you can read it with whatever can read that type of card? For example can you pop the card from your camera into a $20 reader and then point your capture software to that drive and grab the video?

[Hulk]

Ah the old days. I remember my old S-VHS VCR I used to use for VHS capture. It has time based correction and worked very well. Doc recommended it and he was right on. Then you had to load up the Huffyuv codec for lossless capture. I used the Marvel TV and that was actually a pretty solid rig as long as the drive could keep up with the 10MB/sec capture rate. Yeah I know 10MB/sec is a joke for today's drives but actually a chore for the drives of 10 years ago. The old "make sure your capture drive is not the primary drive rule!" Still a good rule I guess but not really necessary today.

Basically with the HF100 every time you record some video that clip is saved as a separate numbered file. You can preview in the camera pretty easily and do some culling there. The SDHC card is actually plenty fast enough to preview in the computer. I use Nero Showtime (last version) and it plays the native HF100 files perfectly.

Alternately I can just drag the clips into the Vegas timeline and decide which ones I'll be needing for the project. I have a Transcend 16GB Transcend card which is really pretty darn fast and cost $43. Pretty amazing. When you can stop and start the camera so fast you will notice, or as least I did, that you don't continue to roll because you think you might miss something because it takes so long to start/stop the camera. You can stop and start instantly. Less than a second delay. Makes editing much less painful since there is less junk in there. The new preroll feature of the new Canon cams seems pretty useful too. When on, if you press record the recording start 3 seconds before you pressed the button. Pretty cool is you're waiting for something to happen as you don't have to record the waiting. I suppose the camera is actually recording and purging the cache so it never puts anything on the card. As soon as you press record I would think the cache gets dumped to SDHC memory and recording continues. Pretty clever idea. If it works the way I surmise it seems tape cameras could use this feature as well to save tape and transport wear.

- Mark

[dchip]

Definitely a smoother process and makes more sense. When I think about it, "digital" video probably shouldn't have involved tape for as long as it has.

When on, if you press record the recording start 3 seconds before you pressed the button. Pretty cool is you're waiting for something to happen as you don't have to record the waiting. I suppose the camera is actually recording and purging the cache so it never puts anything on the card. As soon as you press record I would think the cache gets dumped to SDHC memory and recording continues. Pretty clever idea. If it works the way I surmise it seems tape cameras could use this feature as well to save tape and transport wear.

Can't quite get my brain wrapped around this. All I can think of is the black cat in The Matrix.

When you press record the recording starts 3 seconds before you pressed the button

Since the camera can't turn back time, 3 seconds before you pressed the button, nothing was being recorded, so does this mean a blank header is automatically inserted to make sure your kid flashing the big smile you've been waiting for doesn't become the blank header, or does it mean the recording starts instantly? A flash system should be able to do that anyway, shouldn't it? Well, when I think of it, the camera being a system running on current running through circuits there is probably processing time after you press record and the starting 3 seconds before you pressed the button eleminates that. Wow. Definitely food for thought.

[Hulk]

Here is what I think they are doing.

Imagine when set to this "3 second mode" that the camera is always on and recording. But instead of recording to the SDHC card the camera is simply recording to the buffer, let's say it is large enough to hold 3 seconds of video. So you turn the camera on and 3 seconds later the buffer is filled. After 3 seconds passes what went in the buffer first is flushed out and is now gone. So at 4 seconds after you turn on the camera the time from 0 to 1 second is gone and now seconds 2 3-4 are in the buffer. If you now press record this tells the camera "now start sending data to the SDHC card and instead of the buffer being flushed that data is sent directly to the SDHC card. Presto you have video from 3 seconds before you actually pressed record.

If you think about it the data from the buffer is just diverted from the trash can to the SDHC card when record is pressed. Pretty cool. I know it'd be useful when taking video of my 6 month old.

Going back to the upgrade thing I'm so happy with my current XP Home setup that I'm actually dreading upgrading. I mean everything works and works well. I'm definitely skipping Vista so my next upgrade will be to Windows 7. And that will only be when:
1. I get the "all clear" from users that use many of the same apps that I do.
2. ALL of my applications are available in 64bit and howing performance improvements due to 64bit and multiple cores. Well all of them that matter which is mainly my video apps.
It would also be nice if I could pick up a i7 6 core cpu for a relatively cheap price. 12 cores with hyperthreading. Now THAT would be an upgrade!

- Mark

[dchip]

Heisenberg, I'm not, so I'll just have to be happy that it duz what it duz and that the technological wizardry is in the camera I plan to buy.

I know what you mean about the upgrading. I had Win2KPro on this box until about 6 months ago. It had gotten so long of tooth that it was barely running. I finally did a clean install of XP Pro SP2 and it has been perfect. Fast and stable. I have gotten really settled in with it, IE7, etc.

The amount of upgrading and replacing I need to do in order to build a new system is going to be cataclysmic. I need new everything. I still have single layer Pioneer DVD-R drives, AGP video card, a bunch of old PCI cards, multiple IDE Hard disks, etc. I waited so long that I bascially have to start over and trash most of what I have. I have searched and I don't think there are any motherboards that are the mix of old and new that I would need in order to avoid buying new hard drives, graphics adapter, etc. I'm facing upheaval if I want to do HD. No way around it.

I'm looking into the i7 system you mentioned. Sounds like it's top of the line right now. As for Vegas 8, I don't know. If I were to buy the 64 bit version now and then later upgrade to only a 32 bit system, would the 64 bit version of Vegas still work on it? Anyway, whatever one buys, obsolecence is waiting just around the bend.

[Hulk]

Regarding your earlier question about getting the files off of the SDHC card you don't capture them. You put in the card and simply drag and drop or copy/paste the files to your hard drive and them just drag them to the NLE timeline. That's how it works for me with Vegas Pro 8. Alternatively I can drag them to the timeline without even moving them to the hard drive but the performance working from the SDHC card is obviously less than that of a hard drive.

What you're doing really isn't really much more difficult than replacing a mobo since when you do that everything gets unplugged the disk gets wiped and the OS and all apps are reinstalled. You just have to do a little more plugging and screwing for the other hardware components. You know the deal just go one step at a time and double check everything. Only install the basics for first post/boot. Hard drives, video card, and LAN to get those updates going. That's how I do it anyway.

When you buy Vegas you have access to either the 32 bit or 64 bit version so you can run 32 bit for a while and then move up to the 64 bit version without paying and additional money. And Sony is pretty liberal with their activation (unlike MS) I have Vegas installed on three systems right now with no activation hassles. Once I had a problem installing SoundForge 6 after literally installing it 10 times over the last few years. I called them and they reset me no problem. I think they give you like 10 installs before they make you call to verify that your serial somehow didn't leak out. They're just trying to stop people loading it on like 100 systems. I generally hate activation but have to say that Sony has been relatively painless as far as that goes. Sure it sucks typing in all those numbers but you do it once and you're done until you reformat the C drive and start over again, hopefully years later. Like all software companies Sony is far from perfect but my overall experience with them has been good.

- Mark

[dchip]

Yes SF and Sony have been great to work with. I have registered at least 2 versions of Vegas with them that I did not purchase from them. I will probably do 8 the same way. I think building a new system will be painless other than selecting the hardware. What works with what, and how well, are critical questions.

When I wiped the system drive and put in XP Pro on my current system, I removed everthing except the bare minimum hardware that you mentioned, and then made sure it would boot before putting in anything else. Oddly enough, being on this forum, the one mistake I made was installing a driver for my Millenium G550 off of a disc I got with it. XP didn't like that driver and the system crashed and would not post after that. Three beeps and a black screen. I remembered the last thing I saw was the desktop looking like a fish aquarium screen saver so I knew it was video related. Tried booting multiple times with no luck. Finally unseated the millenium and booted with no video card. Then put the card back in and it booted long enough for me to get the proper XP driver from Matrox. Silky smooth ever since. I put all my Vegas's 3 through 6 back in. Sounds dumb, but I just like having all of them. I still use 4 and 5 sometimes for the fun of it.

So on your setup do you still have a Pyro card or other IEEE-1394 adapter just in case you need it? Is it built into the motherboard and does it work okay. I guess you can tell that firewire capture is in my blood despite it being a pain.

[Hulk]

I use the Presonus Firepod for audio since I do quite a bit of multitrack recording. The Firepod is connected via Firewire using the on-board fireware on my Asus P5B-Deluxe motherboard. It's a TI chipset, which I feel are the best for Firewire. And yes it works fine with DV capture. Interestingly my Dell notebook has VIA firewire and the Firepod and various DV cameras have captured fine on that system as well.

The old Pyro card is retired in a box in the basement.

[dchip]

Now it just hit me how the three second lead in on the new Canon's works. I was trying make it astrophysics when it is not. Does this describe it?: When you turn the camcorder on it starts saving whatever it sees in front of the lens. If you then press record, the last 3 seconds of that is attached to the start of what you record from that point forward? Further, if you do not press record until later, still, the three seconds prior to you pressing record gets attached to your shots. That means the camera is always "recording" but not really storing it unless you request it to, and then only the last 3 seconds of it. If you never press record, all of it is discarded. My apologies if this is almost exactly what you said earlier.

It's obvious that the elimination of tape has opened all kinds of doors. This spring, no more TAPING. I will be telling folks that I am digitizing them with my mini-bazooka-like Canon HF S1.

[dchip]

The old Pyro card is retired in a box in the basement.

Keep that thing. It will never bring a premium but there is a market for it. Firewire webcamming is good on slower systems, plus, the market is chock full of mini DV camcorders being purchased by users who have no idea what they need in order to "get video into their computers." Hard drive cameras and flash ones like yours are swamping them fast but the tape ones are still out there. ebay is loaded with them. If I hadn't come to this board and saw your comment on the HF S1, I was going to either fix the Optura Pi or start bidding on some Sony TRV950's to see if I could snag one for a decent price.

[Hulk]

"Sony TRV950" now that is a name I have not heard in a long time (in Obi Wan Kenobi voice). I remember years and years ago I ordered one of them from one of the now well know Brooklyn scam shops. After a little nightmare I did finally receive my credit back on my card with a lesson learned. Really nice camera in it's day.

And yes you got the 3 second thing figured out!

As you said it's better to just keep the Pyro card. You never know when it will come in handy. Perhaps in a second system without build in Firewire where I want an external firewire drive or something crazy idea. Plus since it ain't worth much on e-bay I might as well just hang on to it.


- Mark

[dchip]

"Sony TRV950" now that is a name I have not heard in a long time (in Obi Wan Kenobi voice). I remember years and years ago I ordered one of them from one of the now well know Brooklyn scam shops. After a little nightmare I did finally receive my credit back on my card with a lesson learned. Really nice camera in it's day.

If you discussed this here or on the Sonic Foundry board then I think I remember the story. It may have been someone else, though. I do remember feeling someones pain as their $1K hung in the balance with some sleazy outfit. I remember somebody on the Sony board who used to try to defend those places even after seeing the site that showed what the "stores" actually look like. I wanted a TRV900/950 or VX2000/2100 very badly back then, but it was more than I was willing to spend. In all truth, the RGB filter on our busted Optura Pi's was imitation 3CCD and the video quality was close to an average quality real 3CCD, but still couldn't touch what those Sonys could do. It came down to money, though.

And yes you got the 3 second thing figured out!

Because I'm still stuck in the tape mindset with all sorts of gizmos inside the camera moving just to save some pictures, it was hard for me to realize how easy it is for these new Canon's, with no moving parts and very little power consumption for the main function, to operate this way and buffer what's happening prior to the record button being pressed. The whole concept reminds me of a tiny version of the imaging system portrayed in the movie Deja Vu.

As you said it's better to just keep the Pyro card. You never know when it will come in handy. Perhaps in a second system without build in Firewire where I want an external firewire drive or something crazy idea. Plus since it ain't worth much on e-bay I might as well just hang on to it.

Because of coming through the trials and tribulations of dealing with firewire, the first thing I ask people when they tell me they can't get theirs to work is: does it have a TI Chipset? And if they answer no, I tell them to take it back to where they got it and get their money back.

If you would like to download some video from the camera send me an e-mail at _______ and I'll send you a link to some uploaded video. I really don't like posting links to personal video. I guess I'm more private than all these kids that post their lives on Facebook and Youtube. No thanks to that!

Yeah, I'd love to check it out. Will send email in a few minutes. I know it's going to tempt me to fork out the $1299 when the HFS1 hits the street in April but I will resist. It would be a mental dagger to pay 1299 bucks for it and then see it for $999 a month and a half later. Man, when I get this camera a burst of creativity is forthcoming. I can feel it. Btw, I'm the same way about posting stuff on the web. I just won't do it. Privacy is a good policy.

[Hulk]

Hey now that you have my e-mail address would you mind editing it out of your reply?

Thanks,

[dchip]

Hey now that you have my e-mail address would you mind editing it out of your reply?

Thanks,

Done.