new mainboards...

[VJ]

Hello!

Every now and then I think of upgrading my current htpc (i7 4970k, GTX1070), even though it suffices). Part of the reason is that I would like a system to play with, and the current pc would be perfect for that.

So I'm looking at the new range of z890 mainboards and notice something odd. There is a surprisingly small number of boards that have more than two pcie slots. Some ATX boards just offer 1 PCIe x16 slot! On the other hand, the have 4 or even 5 M2 slots... I can understand that one or two PCIe slots next to the videocard slot will not be usable, but the others can be. And on a PCIe slot, it is very easy to install an M2 adapter, but not the other way around.. So that generation of mainboards really seems limited in expansion... Most people apparently don't care much about slots anymore, but 1 slot on an ATX board seems ridiculous.

Another thing I noticed is that the higher end the mainboard, the less audio jacks it has. So you can forget about connecting 5.1 through audio jacks or so. I know most will connect via HDMI, but with the lack of slots on the mainboards, the lack of mutlichannel usb soundcards on the market, you really run into limitations...

Where are the times when a good mainboard had 7 PCIe x16 slots (I had the Asus P6T6-WS, until UPS dropped it). My current board (Z97) has 3 PCIe x16, 2 PCIe x4 and 2 PCI (yes, I wanted those as well), and it has an M2 slot. Of course some lanes are shared, so the M2 slot does not work together with the x4 slots, but the newer systems have even more PCIe lanes...

Just me ranting again...

[SteveC]

What are you putting in it to need so many slots?

[VJ]

It is not always a need, but it feels just more restrictive to have for example 5 M2 slots, and just a single PCIe slot that will be taken up by the videocard. There basically is no slot for adding for example a soundcard (more pressing given that the mainboards no longer offer 5.1 jacks), tv tuner card, capture card, etc. On the M2 slots you can only add storage (or you'd have to resort to some weird adapters), but the PCIe slots would easily also allow for M2 disks.

MSI seems to have boards with 3 slots, so at least after adding the videocard there are still 2 available. And they are still usable when you put a videocard, so not too bad - but no 5.1 audio jacks (so adding a soundcard leaves 1). Asus seems to have a knack in badly positioning slots: on my current mainboard, you have to choose either the x4 slots, or the M2 slot (as the PCIe lanes are shared). But instead of positioning those x4 slots right next to the videocard slot (they would be unusable anyway with a multi-slot videocard), they put them elsewhere. So add a M2 card and a double-slot videocard, and you lose 3 of the expansion slots, where this could have been just 2. It seems they still make such weird design choices: Asus z890 prime has 4 slots, but one right next to the videocard slot; the TUF Gaming series is the only one that has more slots (5 in total, but of course again one positioned right next to the videocard slot); only the last one has x16 length, but as it is the last one, most cases won't have a free slot next to it to put a second video card there. OTOH, The three-slot layout on the MSI has the same problem if you were to consider adding a second videocard: either you block the next slot, or you reach the end of the case. The Asus z890 APEX has the most logical layout: x4 slot, next an x16 slot, next empty spaces and then again x4 slot and x16 slot: almost nothing blocks; the Pro-Art Creator does offers three nicely spaced apart x16 slots. So it is possible to come up with something logical...
Of course they have thunderbolt ports, for external expansion, but that adds an expensive enclosure box to the mix...

In my current PC I have a videocard, tuner/capture card and scsi card (on a PCI slot, for my scanner). I also had a second network for quite some time - so four slots in use. In my older PC I had a videocard, Firewire card, SATA raid card and scsi card.

I would love to use my current system to experiment with Proxmox, particularly trying forwarding a videocard to a virtual machine. Ideally there'd be a videocard for the host (luckily my mainboard has the onboard video), but then it would be nice to have an additional videocard for the virtual machine. In this context, an extra USB controller could be nice as it is possible to pass an entire controller to the virtual machine (but not required as you can forward ports). And if you want to do the same for a second virtual machine: a second videocard?
Even if I forgo the Proxmox approach: some more storage (sata or m2) could be useful, and PCIe slots give the choice.

If I get a new system for HTPC, I'd like it to have a videocard, and at least 2 usable slots (soundcard - esp. if it does not have 5.1 jacks) and a still one slot for whatever else I may need.

I know I'm perhaps exaggerating, but I like having options... it seems those mainboards now are offering much less options, they assume you have a mainboard and a videocard, and no other hardware. Times are changing I guess...

[Umfriend]

I feel everything in IT is being dumbed-down. Whether it is with connectors or accessible BIOS options.

[VJ]

Yes... I'm now thinking of getting a current generation mainboard... I can find some good ones in the current generation (a shame that the Supermicro z790 - https://www.supermicro.com/en/produc...ard/c9z790-cgw - is so difficult to find, but there are others like that), and it may be cheaper (or not more expensive for more that interests me). On the other hand, I don't have time for a PC at the moment, so perhaps still better to wait... There are some OK mainboards in the new generation...

[UtwigMU]

Check r/vfio community for motherboards for PCIE passtrough.

Otherwise Newegg and PC Partpicker are good to find hardware that meets particular constraints.

AMD:

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007625%20601409332%20601431450

Intel:

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007627%20601413213%20601413282%20601413283

Unless Intel boards have features you need, AMD is the better option. I went Intel on new server because the Supermicro mATX board had two nvme slots.

[VJ]

It needs to be ATX, not CEB or EATX.
I have found some mainboars that would suit me, it just puzzles me that there are so little with a larger number of slots: the mainboards that have the option to run 1x x16 or 2x x8 is quite limited. I get that SLI is no longer a thing, but still...
O, and of cousre the new mainboards have everything AI: AI network, AI cooling, AI fans, ... and it is probably just the same as it was...

[UtwigMU]

Also check Supermicro, I think for multiple slots they are the best option.

[VJ]

Currently looking at this mainboard: Gigabyte Z890 Aero G ( https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/Z890-AERO-G#kf ).
Three slots 2 x PCIe 5.0 x16 (x16, x8), 1 x PCIe 4.0 x4 Slot; enough M2 slots, hdmi output.
The slots are quite sensibly spaced, unlike many others. It is surprising how few mainboards have 2 PCIe x16 slots that can work in x8/x8 mode. And a lot of them have the second slot (which then is max. x4) in the furthest position which prevents putting a videocard there due to physical limitations of the case.

Only potential downside of the mainboard - for me -is that it does not have a 5.1 analog output (well... according to the manual it is possible to have 5.1 out by assigning the front jacks as well - so something can be done), but that can be overcome by adding an additional soundcard (I know sound goes via HDMI, but when my projector fails I need an alternative as the amplifier is too old for new standards - optical has some other restrictions). Anyway most higher end mainboard miss out on the 5.1 output so that has stopped being a criterion for me. Interestingly, it has an internal hdmi port, which I could use for the lcd screen in my htpc case (saves on having to go via a bracket on the back, as it is now, although that is not a big issue - for sure that is not an argument for the mainboard, but interesting feature).

edit: Learning a bit more about current mainboards... The ones that have 2 PCIe slots that can work in x8/x8 mode have those connected to the CPU. It is basically recommended to use the second slot only for a videocard or storage (of course limiting the lane to the first slot). Some boards that have two (or more) slots have the other slots connected to the chipset, and then they are typically max. x4, so not recommended for videocards. The Gigabyte board I'm looking at has two PCIe slots connected to the cpu, and one to the chipset (x4), another alternative I was looking at also has 3 slots, but 1 connected to the CPU and 2 to the chipset. I guess I'll have to decide which type of PCIe slot I want: one that supports a videocard, or a more general one that does not... Still, only the most expensive Asus seems to have the most sensible layout: 2 x16 slots connected to the CPU, and 2 x4 slots to the chipset; and they are positioned in such a way that all are usable, even with a wide videocards - I just don't want to spend nearly triple for a mainboard just for some functionality that I may never use.

Never had a Gigabyte... My last 2 mainboards were Asus (and before that Supermicro and Shuttle)... But I guess it is also one of the good brands?

[UtwigMU]

Gigabyte is solid, I had one fail with bad caps after around 7 years 10 years ago, (gave it to someone who then replaced them).

[VJ]

Seriously considering getting the computer... As I don't need a case, PSU or even videocard, it is not too expensive (<1000 EUR). I don't really need a new PC, but it would be nice to have a proper file storage solution for safely storing files - currently I have a mess with that and lack of transparent safe storage. My current mainboard would be very good for that (it has 6 SATA ports, and I have the harddisks), the case of my dual Xeon can hold it all and more...

I'd probably use Windows (I have a license for it, and as I'm already not using my old Atom-based Zotac mini computer, I could use that ones license for the new computer and move the Atom to linux).

Ideally I'd use ProxMox to virtualize different servers, but I have to be sure I properly deal with the data...