No Gigger for me?

[xortam]

S.O.B.!!! My system is freezing with my old 450 Slot 1! Yesterday, I returned the 425w PS and put back my original PS. I yanked the Gigger and put in my original CPU, a Katmai 450 Slot 1. I turned back on the web animation feature and happily went back to my old ways with not having to step on eggshells while using my system. S.O.B. if my system didn't eventually hang. I just had it freeze again just now. I've had this system working for a very long time so this is quite alarming. The freeze is on my W2KAS install so I'll need to check my old Win98 install and new W2KP install which are on a separate boot disk. I'm going to have to start minimizing the HW and perhaps reverting the BIOS (running 1014.001a after just updating from 1014.001) and nail this down. On the bright side, the Gigger may still work after I locate the problem. Its very strange that I was seeing the freeze on all of my OSes. The W2KP install is straight from the CD ... no updates or app installs. I had wondered at times if I was chasing multiple causes and I was trying to eliminate SW as the cause by testing the various OSes. I've got many things to try again. The mystery continues ...

[xortam]

I finally got a chance to get back to tracking down this problem today. I managed to get my old 450 processor stable by reducing the AGP speed to 1x. I first ripped out the sound card and NIC and flashed to the older 1013 BIOS. I noticed the machine wasn't stable until I ran in VGA mode. That is when I reinstalled the certified W2K drivers (again) and set it to 1x AGP and all was fine. I reinstalled the sound and NIC cards and it was still stable. I put back the Gigger and it still hangs on the "Greebe" test (described above). I'm currently running with the Gigger in VGA mode and it hasn't crashed yet. I may have to try another video card. Anybody have any suggestions to try (No, not you Jordey ).

[xortam]

My Win98 install (separate boot disk from W2KAS) is acting the same way: AGP is at 1x and system hangs running the "Greebe" test on the Gigger when using the Max (6.50 drivers). The system is stable if I run it as a VGA. Why would my Max cause the system to hang just because I put a faster processor in? Nothing is o/c'ed. Anybody?

[xortam]

Another clue in the puzzle ... the system still hangs with 1x AGP and all HW acceleration turned off! Still no problems whatsoever if I run as VGA.

So:
VGA mode is stable.
Gigger hangs with no graphics HW acceleration.
Reducing AGP speeds got the P!!!/450 stable.
Increasing Turbo-Cool PS power ratings helped stabilize the Gigger system somewhat.
Various BIOS revs and settings have had no affect.
Hangs occur under Win98, W2KP, and W2KAS, each with varying DX levels installed.
Among other things, dragging frame size and scroll bars hang the system but just viewing animated GIFs really set it off.

Isn't anybody up to the challenge? I'm about to run out and try a non-Matrox graphics card to see if that helps.

[Greebe]

Xor, it could be a leaky cap or two... ready to do some soldering?

[xortam]

"ready to do some soldering?"

I'd rather not start swapping MB components unless I can isolate the problem first. Is it possible to safely measure a cap while its still in the circuit? I have been starting to wonder if the MB has incurred some damage during this and some noise is causing AGP transfer problems. I've always been careful to ground myself while swapping memory and processors and all interior work has been done very carefully. I'm really surprised that the desktop work is using AGP at all. Does it make sense that disabling HW acceleration doesn't help (perhaps makes it worse)?

[Greebe]

The only means of testing is out of circuit because you would be looking for the leakage current.

and yes, even disabling AGP transfers and hardware accelleration wouldn't matter.

[xortam]

Well I'm not ready to yank components on a whim: I'd need more evidence first.

I think I'll test with another graphics card next. Its not clear if the AGP bus is an issue though slowing the transfers down helped the 450. Is there any traffic on the AGP bus when HW acceleration is disabled? Regardless, I wouldn't think there wouldn't be any AGP traffic when simply doing 2D work and viewing animated GIFs? If AGP traffic isn't the problem then why does VGA work? What is it about the Max that allows me to run it in VGA mode but hangs on the desktop with PD drivers?

[Wombat]

Yes, there's traffic on the AGP bus. It's how your video card is getting its information. It may just be running as a glorified PCI bus, but it's still your means of communication.

[Greebe]

Well I'm not ready to yank components on a whim

Hardly a whim, more like a highly educated guess... replacing that powersupply like above was a whim.

You actually can test for ripple with the componets in circuit, but you also need a high quality digital multimeter and know what you are reading. Based on everything stated thus far I came to this conclusion. Could I be wrong, darn tootin, but I still think it's the caps.

[xortam]

Thanks Wombat ... of course it uses the AGP bus ... I don't know what I was thinking. So why does VGA work? Various PD drivers on various OSes cause the system to hang even with no HW acceleration.

I knew I should have used a different word then "whim" Mike. I'll reconsider the rework if you're really convinced its the caps. Point out which caps and I'll see if I'm up to the task. Once removed, am I just looking to see if the caps pass any current or what?

[Jon P. Inghram]

Did you try a hard reset of the CMOS?

[xortam]

By hard reset, do you mean removing the battery? If so, then no. I did reset the BIOS to "Setup Defaults" as directed after a flash, yet I don't know why that would make a difference.

[Jon P. Inghram]

Not sure if it would help, just figured it couldn't hurt. The manual shows what to do, you don't have to pull the battery, just the AC cable off the back of the PS and short a contact on the board. BTW, have you tried that CPU in any other computer than yours and your friends? It's possible it's bad, you might wanna try before going too crazy.

[xortam]

The CPU was tried in three different P2B-XX PCs and mine was the only one that would even POST. I don't think its the CPU perse but the stress it puts on the system by its higher frequency.