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**Chucky Cheese** · 19 April 2002, 15:20

good point pAugustine...thanks

my rm-av2000 remote was expensive, but it is great for sony devices.

i think i'll go with the higher end sony(...ES series sart at 1100 bucks) for the av reciever and get the speakers from some one else...maybe bose?

cc

**KvHagedorn** · 19 April 2002, 18:43

one of the reasons why i'm inclined to sony is because of their "s-link", sometimes it is called "command", which runs between componets...sooooo

The Yamaha RXV2200 receiver (recently lowered to $1000) has a remote that will work anything. No fiddling with gimmicky crap like s-link which was devised as a way to get the uninitiated to buy an all-sony system. The only thing which I would get Sony is the TV. And don't spend more than $1000 on that if it is an old-fashioned square one.

Sony ES equipment is overpriced. Sony doesn't really do audio worth a flip, to tell you the truth. If you are stuck on them, I'm afraid there's really no hope for you.. As for Bose? Well, since you have not had the sense to listen to Jammrock's suggestions I don't think I'll waste my breath. Go ahead. Get Sony and Bose. And don't listen to them beforehand even. Then you can remain convinced that because it says "Sony" and "Bose" on it, it must be good. Hey, they are the best at marketing, aren't they? It must logically follow that they make the best equipment.

**Jammrock** · 19 April 2002, 21:21

I sense a tint or sarcasm in that post.

Chucky, listen to KvH...he sells this stuff for a living. I buy this stuff for a living. Or was it I make a living so I can buy this stuff? Who knows.

Jammrock

**PAugustin** · 20 April 2002, 00:21

Hi,

I quite agree with KvH about Sony and Bose. I already made my point about Sony, regarding Bose, well I wouldn't buy there system. It is not HiFi, just expensive hype (like B&O). For the speakers, try other brands, real HiFi brands like JBL, JMLab, B&W, Advance Acoustic, Cabasse, Wharfedale,....

Just go to a store with you own CD/DVD and ask for a demo !

**Indiana** · 20 April 2002, 02:42

While I'd agree fully on the Bose part (my dad has some of their supposedly better speakers and they're really crappy), I'd tend to disagree a bit with the Sony thing: they do have some interesting offerings in the mid-range, O.K. nothing really high-end, but those high-end equipments normally are too expensive for most of us. And e.g. those old Sony ES DAT recorders were quite fine as well as theri ES CD-players when looked from a price/performance standpoint.

For speakers, how about ELAC? Sometimes a bit expensive, but really good if you're more into Pop-music than classic (this is a B&W domain), and they are really, really high manufacturing quality. Some of the better Canton offerings might be interesting as well if you're on a budget.

I have a Onkyo (I know KvH doesn't like them, but IMO the Yamaha tend to sound a bit too "harsh"/"sharp" for my liking - at least they did some years ago) TX-DS575 X combined with some old ELAC 141 front speakers, an mid-range ELAC center speaker plus two Canton Plus-S rear speakers and an active Canton subwoofer from a 5.1 set (I've not yet replaced those bad rear speakers, unfortunately...).
This setup sounds quite good for DolbySurround and AC3/DTS and has the advantage that it's also usable for listening to music.

**KvHagedorn** · 20 April 2002, 18:16

Onkyo's not that bad. I just don't sell them.

The only place that seems to sell lots of Onkyo is Circuit City, and they don't often have the Integra series (higher end Onkyo) which is really much better than the regular series.

If one is comparing an $1100.00 SonyES receiver to a $1000.00 Yamaha RXV2200 though, the Yamaha is far and away the superior offering.

How do you like the Canton speakers? We had a rep from that company leave some materials on them while I was away one day. They look pretty nice.. at least it was a very upper-crusty type brochure showing typical upper-crusty type people enjoying them in their typical upper-crusty ultra modern houses furnished sparingly with upper-crusty artsy type furniture.

**Indiana** · 21 April 2002, 02:51

Canton has some nice speakers (the Fonum series is quite good price/performance-wise), but the last time I liked the Elac better - I wanted to buy a Canton, but for the kind of music I'm hearing (mostly Pop&Wave, DepecheMode and the like plus some 50's & 60's) the Elac was better.

I've not actually listened to speakers for some time, so those opinions might be outdated.

My rear-speakers Canton Plus-S, however... well, they're fine for DolbySurround, but for AC3 they're too "flat". But then I don't have space for big rear speakers, and all those satellites I've heard until now are sounding flat.

**Chucky Cheese** · 21 April 2002, 15:34

now wait a minuet KvH...that's not fair!!!!

i happen to have a job that i like and it pays well..+ there is unlimited overtime...so i work alot...that is why i'm buying all this stuff. i don't know enough about this stuff to disreguard anything, so relax. asking questions about sony doesn't mean my mind is made up. i'm not buying anything anyways until the stuff that i ordered is paid for, and since i just completed my ibm rs6000 training, the projected overtime looks great!!

i just got done(..saturday) going to three stores(..circut city, stero visions and hh greggs) armed with jammrocks' recommendations'. stero visions is an exclusive sony store. i took my gladiator dvd and had the store rep. play the last scene(..where he falls dead then it goes into that song...great music). i repeated this at all the stores on denon w/ar/jbl/polk/and two other brands of speakers, that escape me. the other recievers i listened to were harmon kardon and onkyo. all were in the 700 to 900 dollar range.

i came away from the day likeing the harmon kardon with the acoustic research speakers combo, but i might have been nudged in that direction from the sales rep.

anyways...i'm still shopping. since you are in the business, what would your "ultimate system" be comprised of?? minus the TV and s-vhs of course.

cc

**KvHagedorn** · 21 April 2002, 16:33

Well, "Ultimate" can get pretty extreme, you know..

Let's go for entry-level ultimate.. how's that?
I would leave receivers behind, going straight to the Preamp-Processors and seperate power amps.

Anthem AVM20 Preamp-Processor: $3200
Anthem MCA-50 5 channel power amp: $2000
B&W CDM9NT main speakers: $2600/pr
B&W CDMCNT center speaker: $600 ea
B&W CDMSNT surround speakers: $1200/pr
Velodyne SPL1200 subwoofer: $1200 ea

That's just over $10,000 but it is worth every penny.

If you want something less expensive, try:

Yamaha RXV2200 receiver: $1000
B&W CDM1NT main speakers: $1200/pr
B&W CDMCNT center speaker: $600 ea
B&W CDMSNT surround speakers: $1200/pr
Velodyne SPL1000 subwoofer: $1000

That's just $5000 there, but still pretty darned impressive.

**Chucky Cheese** · 21 April 2002, 16:47

thanks!!!

what do you think about the hk avr 8000. i was reading another thread here about "high current" systems? this avr 8000 is expensive but i can swing the price when the time comes. crutchfield has it for 2400...etronics.com has it for 1800.

cc

**Jammrock** · 21 April 2002, 17:00

Let's go suicidal shall we?

Proceed AVP2 preamp: $5000
2 x Mark Levinson No 33 mono-block amps: $21000
Mark Levinson No. 336 (2-channel amp for surrounds): $9500
Mark Levinson No. 436 (center channel): $5000
Wilson Sophia (fronts): $12000
Wilson Watch Center: $6500
Wilson Watch Surround: $6300
Wilson Watchdog subwoofer: $9000
Nice cabling to match: $3000

Total: $73800

Yeah, yeah...this is not the end all be all, nor the most expensive, but it's the best setup I have personally heard.

Anyway, the B&W CDM 9NT, CNT and SNT's are great speakers. That's what I own. Perfectly matched for surround and sound absolutely wonderful. Go to www.bwspeakers.com to look up a dealer location near you. Can't comment on Anthem, as I haven't listened to them before.

Oh yeah...get some really good interconnects and speakers cables. You'll be shocked how much of a difference good cables make.

Jammrock

**Chucky Cheese** · 21 April 2002, 17:22

i like that speaker site...i'll be all over that site tommorrow, right now, i'm going to bed...overtime!!!

cc

**KvHagedorn** · 21 April 2002, 18:47

Buy nothing online. You get no warranty with it, at least for the better brands. Those etailers are grey marketeers out for a quick (and minimal) profit and offer no service or assistance worth speaking of. Crutchfield sells at normal retail prices anyhow, since they try and remain above board. Yamaha and Denon both have disclaimers on their websites attesting to this. As for opinions on this or that equipment, that's what dealers are for.. they have showrooms where you can usually go listen to the stuff before you buy it, especially in bigger cities. I would suggest an exhaustive demo expedition before coughing up your hard earned cash, and go to more professional stores rather than the Circuit Citys and Best Buys of the world, where they dress up teenagers with no knowledge, teach them to shake hands, and call it customer service. Mass merchants don't sell the good stuff anyhow.. it's like trying to find 18yo scotch at the supermarket.

Good Luck.

**Wombat** · 21 April 2002, 19:06

KvH, are you familiar with the "SoundTrack" chain of stores? They sell some of the components I'd be looking at, and I'd have to go to Denver otherwise.

**KvHagedorn** · 21 April 2002, 21:03

I've never heard of Sound Track.. what brands do they carry? And how far is Denver? (I like thinking up excuses for road trips myself

)

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