Parhelia needs .13 micron

[RedRed]

Your 'tude is neither necessary nor appreciated. Are you this antagonistic to all newcomers to your forum or am I just special?

If wombat didn't pull you up on that, then you would be treated 'special'

there has been extensive - (and I mean extensive) discussion about die size & such over the last year at least on these fori...

but anyway - Welcome aboard!

A good number of the members of these fori are VERY technical bodies.... We got Intel/Matrox/Segate and gawd knows what!

(where did I put by spare bc109?)

but should this not be on the Crystal Ball?

[edit: couple of typos]

[[Ch]amsalot]

RedRed,

Thank you too for the welcome. I've been the lead moderator at the MaximumPC Magazine Commport forums for several years, so dealing with people of all personalities goes with the territory. However, as you can guess by my willingness to use an NVIDIA logo on a Matrox forum, I won't let others push me around, and I back up my "NSHO's" with facts when my hand is called.

Perhaps Wombat and I will earn each others' respect, perhaps not. But seeing as he has good taste in hardware components he can't be too bad.

Lest anyone get confused, I'm no NVIDA fan boy. I've had cards from just about every major manufacturer including Matrox, ATI, NVIDIA, and 3dfx. I'm using the NVIDIA logo cause that's what I have in my current rig.

-[Ch]amsalot

[Wombat]

The problem is that "all things being equal" is definitely NOT true. 130nm yield is bad right now, and the leakage problems are NOT very pretty. Overall power may go down, but power density goes up substantially. That can not only kill a design outright, but even working dies will have a hard time throwing off all that heat - you have a much smaller surface to put your heat across, so your thermal gradient becomes a real bitch. And just because our debates get heated, don't think us too rude. Welcome to MURC forums.

Also, you'll find that MURC has a higher standard for "NSHO"s than most othre places. Smart people come here, and stay here. We have fab engineers, coders, processor engineers, a good portion of Matrox, the first guy to overclock Athlons........the list goes on. Please, please look around for our past process size discussions. They got to be many pages long, and I don't want to go through the whole thing again.

Redred: this boy is HP.

[RedRed]

wombat - from the HP side of the house or Compaq? - I went for a tech job in Digital years ago - didnt take it cos the money was pants!

BTW, just so I follow this all correctly - NSHO's = Not so humble opinion, right?

[Wombat]

The original HP. I've worked on McKinley, and the PA-8700 before that. http://cpus.hp.com for cool photos of both.

Yes, that's the right acronym.

[[Ch]amsalot]

I am anything if but humble.

:P

For those who care, I've created a poll at the MaximumPC Commport forum to see how many of my forum members intend to purchase Parhelia, NV30, R300, P10 or "other". It should make for an decent poll:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/maxcommport/messages?msg=135418.1

I am very interested in the discussions regarding process size and I will try to find the thread. Hopefully I'll find it and gain some knowledge and humility in the, uh... process (no pun intended).

-[Ch]amsalot

[DukeP]

Hey Womby, that McKinley sure looks nice. And I mean looks. Id always thought that designs that intuitively looked nice, had something going for them. No real ugly airplane ever broke speed records, right?

I wonder if it would be possible to get a poster of ones favorite processor. Nach. Being neerdy again, are we?



~~DukeP~~

[[Ch]amsalot]

So Wombat, do you know this guy?

-[Ch]amsalot

[Wombat]

Posters? Maybe. We've got some big plotter printouts around the lab, and people often have posters on the wall of the blocks they've designed.

[Wombat]

Hey, what are you doing with Dave's picture!?!

[Oboy]

Originally posted by [Ch]amsalot
BTW Oboy,

Thanks for the welcome.

NP

I noticed that you have not disputed that, all things being equal, going to .15 micron process to a .13 micron process will result in higher maximum speeds.

Ill defer on this one to the ppl that know!

By any chance to you have a background in electrical engineering?

-[Ch]amsalot

Na I have just been working in the Industry WAY to long! BUY Intel Oboy needs to retire and soon!


Wombat You have a SWEET job Bro! I would LOVE to get back into R&D!

Oboy

[[Ch]amsalot]

Wombat,

Why embedding a link to it, of course :P

I'm gonna edit it out now, but your background is certainly impressive.

Me?? I'm lucky if I can successfully make my bed, let alone get involved in designing processors. Yeesh!

-[Ch]ams

[[Ch]amsalot]

Posted by Wombat:

That can not only kill a design outright, but even working dies will have a hard time throwing off all that heat - you have a much smaller surface to put your heat across, so your thermal gradient becomes a real bitch.

I'm assuming you're talking about T-bred. What about using a heat spreader for T-bred just like Intel uses for the P4?

-[Ch]ams

[Wombat]

I should have looked at the URL I thought you were posting a pic of someone you knew.

Thanks for the compliment. I hope you can understand why I get a little frustrated when everyone tells me "X is faster and cheaper" when I can look around and see that it's actually a very different world.

[[Ch]amsalot]

You see the world differently from me. I see the end results... Intel, AMD, and NVIDIA shipping out faster procs cheaper than ever before on a smaller process. I think to myself, if NVIDIA can do it, why not Matrox?

So, not to beat a dead horse, but why not Matrox? Politics? Limited access to .13 micron fabs? Money? I find it difficult to believe that the next gen parts from ATI and NVIDIA won't be based upon .13 micron.

-[Ch]ams