Careers in computing...A+? MSCE? BSc? Diploma?

[Pace]

Having just graduated (albeit with a little diploma), and applied for dozens of jobs (all gloriously unsuccessful so far), I was wondering what course *you* took into a computing career.

I realise we have a wide range of computing talent here, from computer sales to chip fab engineers, and I am currently investigating my own options (which are roughly do another year and get a BSc or MSc, get industry certification, get a less challenging job or try and do some computer work self-employed).

So, let the career talk begin.

P.

[Gurm]

I've got an A+ and an MCP (Windows XP Professional). Fat lot of good they're doing me right now.

(Gurm wanders off to find out what Logan is getting into now... *sigh* the life of a househusband...)

- Gurm

[DentyCracker]

Get a degree and some sort of certification. Network stuff is probably the most marketable. I was considering getting my CCNA before I went back into medicine. I only had a B.Sc in physics and some SCO certification previously.

[Dogbert]

/Me is a proud illiterate !!!

[Pace]

Denty: I'm hoping to do that, but I'm wondering what should I aim for first? I know a few graduates who studied with me, but a year ahead, so they all have BSc's in Computing, one is out of work, one is working in his Dad's takeaway food joint, another in a call centre. The UK has too many computing graduates, hence I'm thinking that specific qualifications to a job might put me further up that interview list.

Everything will need to be done part time, as I need to work as well.

What do you do then Dogbert? How easily did you find it getting work?

[RichL]

BTEC ONC / HNC in Electronics Engineering, EITB approved apprenticeship and a small slice of luck in my final work experience placement.

After that it was CNA 4.11, CCNA and I'm one of the very few Banyan Vines qualified people around. I'll be quids in if the six people who still use Banyan ever want their own network

Some advice : never be afraid to ask for high wages. You wouldnt beleive some of the muppets we have were I work who know less, do less, are responsible for less yet get paid a lot more than I do. (ex Overtime and callout that is). If a job advertises 25-30k, ask for 30k even if you know you havent got all the qualifications they're looking for.
Employers frequently advertise for people with high qualifications just to discourage the lusers who think "I've read a copy of PC Pro, I can do tech support!"

[Dogbert]

Actually my case is luck and brain (more luck).
I'm a computer geek since I'm young and I have a capability to learn stuff quite quickly as long as it isn't boring (I have a very short concentration span).

To make a long story short, I've found myself as a VAX/VMS sys admin in the army, worked as a PC tech instructor, internet help desk etc. till I was offered a job in QA (which I had no idea what it really was). I learned (Mercury Interactive's) Winrunner white working on the tool and got a project of my own 2 months later.

Ever since, every time I got a job (usually beating an Engineer to it) was because I had more diverse knowledge, the interviewer got the feeling I could handle anything thrown at me (and more) and they thought that since I'm not a qualified Engineer, I'll be cheater.
What most people look for now, like you said, is the extra value.
Best way to show it is with certificates like MCP, MCSE etc.
A faster and better way is to get cetificates that are cheaper to get and take less time.

There are thousands of MCSEs out there, but there are fewers of other kinds. Be special, make your CV different by giving the impression of "Well, I might not have MCSE, but I know most of their stuff already. On the other hand, I know all this ___, ____, ___ extra stuff that they can't even start to comprehend".
This way, people see "extra value" in your application form.

edit: I'm working as a Quality Assurance "engineer" for computer and telephony software. In other words, I do testing.

[Pace]

Ok, thanks guys, and Rich, I'm applying for jobs from £10k to £30k, and beyond! I was actually quite hopeful of a job around £30k, as I do have some experience in networking/tech support with my Dads company, which always looks nice on a CV. The job description matched exactly what I had for my previous experience...just a shame they had put the wrong description up, they actually needed Oracle experience.

P.

[cjolley]

Do What you love, the rest will follow...

What is your favorite thing to do with computers?

In my case, I stayed up nights writing programs to make the lights blink on the keyboard and cracking games, so what I wanted was a CS degree.
If you can't keep yourself from fiddling with your home network every night then Networking is it.

If you want a job fast, then become an Oracle DBA. The pay is realy good, and good ones are rare. (I program in/on Oracle databases, but I am not a DBA).
Read up on Oracle, the only DB experience I had when I got this job was DB theory on my way to my CS degree.

chuck

[GNEP]

All good advice by the sounds of it. I am not in IT myself, but have an M.Eng (which is why I object to the "E" in MCSE), and now am ACMA - a chartered management accountant. Whilst I do not use the latter (or the former much in fact) actively, I felt in my world (business & finance) that my degree, which covered a lot of the accountancy qualification, was not well known enough (it was actually Engineering, Economics and Management) so the ACMA added a bit of paper that people recognise & respect for v. little effort.

The relevance of this? 2 things:

1) If you can get proper (by this I don't count MCSE's etc) qualifications without too much cost/time/effort in a relevant field, then do so. Especially if they draw on previous experience. In the long run, this will help you.

2) I did a *lot* of work experience as a student. This really beefs up a CV and gives you stuff to talk about in interviews - "real life business situations" that they love. And hey, I ended up working for one of the companies I did a long placement for, eventually (via a web building company believe it or not during the dot com boom - but got out before it ended ).

So ideally if you can combine a respected course in an area where you are already experienced and that you enjoy with work experience/placements, that would be a good course of action. Preferably a course that integrates work placments directly.

And I totally agree with Rich's suggestion. Be ballsy when it comes to pay - you can only ever gain. Companies rarely reject you because you ask for too much, but instead just offer less if they can't/don't want to afford it.

Gnep

[Jammrock]

Jammrock like fix computer...long post

Ah righty me hardy. Jammrock here wit' some wisdom and advice...

The two most important thing are a good resume and experience! After that I would say certifications and formal education. In the tech support world there aren't a lot of formal education possibilties outside of some 2-year degrees. The only real 4-year degree is CIS (Computer Information Systems), but that's more for databasing and crap like that.

Although most employers of tech people don't require a formal college/university degree, they still like to see one, even if it's just a 2-year degree. It shows you have the ability and willingness to learn. Certification are somewhat of a proof that you already know a lot of stuff.

There has been a recent hurt on certs lately due to 'paper techs.' People with no real computer knowledge that took some cert classes and passed some tests, but has no real-world skillz. This is were experience comes in, it shows that you are not a 'paper tech' and that you have developed tech support skillz.

Having been in the computer and tech support world for aboot 5 years now, I would say the 'ideal' employee would have the following for each job type:

Helpdesk/Phone Support

1) High school or equivelent degree required.
2) Some college, preferably at least a 2-year degree in a computer related field.
3) At least some hobbyist experience, preferably 1-year of actual helpdesk experience.
4) CompTIA A+ certified

...with a helpdesk, they normally train you with what you need to know and have fix databases for you to use, so not a lot of experience is required. A lot of people start here and move up after getting some experience.

Desktop Support, i.e. Field Computer Support

1) ditto
2) ditto
3) At least 1-year, sometime 3-years, prior desktop or helpdesk support experience.
4) A+ certified, MCP/MCSA/MCSE done or working on, Network+ helps.

...I am currently a desktop tech. I have my 2-year degree, A+, Network+, MCP and working on my MCSA and have 5-years experience. I am one of the higher paid people in my field

Server/Network Administrator

1) ditto
2) ditto
3) At least 5-year previous computer support of some type.
4) MCSA or MCSE must be complete. Some will require certification in the database software they use, such as Oracle trained, MCDBA (M$ DataBase Admin), etc. Some will still require an A+ or Network+. Smaller companies also have the server people do router administration, in which case a CCNA (Cisco Certified Networking Associate) would greatly help.

Data Technician/Administrator

1/2) ditto
3) Tech: 1-year prefered. Admin: 3-5 years.
4) CCNA or equivelent cert for the equipment that company uses. If they have you do server work as well, a MCSA/MCSE or traiing in the companies server platform of choice.

Consultant

1/2) ditto, 4-year degree will be required by some companies, or at least 7-years of consulting expereince, plus relevant working knowledge exceeding 5-years.
3) see above.
4) Here every cert helps. MCSE, CCNP/CCIE, IBM PSE, A+, Network+, Server+, MCT, MSOS...etc.

...What to make a 6-digit salary in the technology field, just get your CCIE! Of course, the tests alone will cost you $5k USD and the failure rate is higher than any other certification known to man.

And that's the basics of it...


As a resume helper, use lots of technical jargon and talk, but not too much that no one can understand it. If you do not have any paid working experience in the tech world, put your home experience in as a 'SOHO (Small Office/Home Office) consultant,' or the like. That hobbyist expereine can pay off

Last, but never least, YOU MUST HAVE PEOPLE SKILLZ!!!! You can be a computer/netowrk god(dess), but if your clients hate you, you are fired. You have to know how to talk to people, explain computer terms at their level, be friendly with them, be patient with them and most importantly, make them feel comfortable and confident in you. I've known people with so-so tech skillz, but have incredible people skillz, keep jobs longer than people with great tech skillz and bad people skillz. People skillz are a must for any support job.

The only exception is if you are a back line worker that only interacts with your boss, like a cable runner or backroom PC builder.

Jammrock

[WyWyWyWy]

Having just spent a year in work placement as a BSc student (got a few offers!!), I can tell you what the shortage is.

Yes there are a lot of CompSci graduates in here, but only 10% are up to their job (or so my boss & collegues said). If you think you are good, and have a good degree (2.1 or 1st) from a good Uni, you're pretty much set. FYI, IBM and MS are offering at least 24k pro rata for graduate trainees.

The shortage at the moment:
1. ASP + XML + DHTML + WebServices
2. Java (very limited candidates)
3. CRM stuff (like PeopleSoft, FrontRange, etc)
4. C++ (as usual)
5. UNIX & Win2k
6. Serious DB stuff (very serious)

You see, there are still a lot of opportunities in London, Reading and Swindon.

I honestly recommend a BSc, go the traditional route! That's if you want to get into a Fortune500 company.

[GNEP]

Should add also, that in the current jobs climate (it's warming up, but only v. slowly) in London, then delaying your "entry" (phnarrr phnarr) by doing a 1 or 2 year course could end up in your favour - by the time you finish, there should be more jobs around. (But of course you need to try and predict what the demand will be then, what will make you indispensible to a firm, and what others might not be thinking of flooding into!)

G

[cjolley]

Re: Jammrock like fix computer...long post

Originally posted by Jammrock
...The only real 4-year degree is CIS (Computer Information Systems), but that's more for databasing and crap like that.....
Jammrock

Excuse me?
chuck

[Pace]

Have any of our Brits used the Open University? I was thinking about that, while possibly reading up on some certification at the same time. I have contacted them to ask how many credits I'd need to take to receive the BSc.