Best performance for Intel P4... by SiS!

[K6-III]

Why not have a place on the assembly line with a cold room with plenty of dehumidifiers???

[Che Guevara]

6,4-GHz-XDR-DRAMs won't be very 'cheap' (what is cheap, what is expensive? ) but you will not have to upgrade a long time, who needs more than 100Gbyte/sec? Intels Tejas cpu would have only a bandwith between 6 and 9 Gbyte/sec.
Remember: PC-800 was introduced as fastest ram when the fastest processor was a p-3 800 Mhz. It was still the fastest ram when the pentium 4 2 GHz was available (and was beaten by rambus PC-1066 then )!!!!!
PC-800 is still fastest memory for p-3 and fast enough for every Pentium 4 system. A very good duration of life for hardware I think.

You guys always think about the prices, but never about the time the hardware will be useful .

[dZeus]

RDRAM never was the fastest ram for P3. It was beaten even by i815 chipset in performance for P3 platform.

RDRAM + P3 was only done to create a marketshare for Rambus when P4 would hit the market, to make the availability of RDRAM on the market better.

P3 platform in itself had no benefits at all of the added bandwidth of RDRAM, since the P3 bus is almost equal to a single channel PC133 SDRAM memory bus in bandwidth. In fact, the performance lowered with RDRAM because of the added latency.

Further more, Intel had a contract with RDRAM, which would make it very profititable for Intel if Rambus would get a certain marketshare/revenue at a certain point in time (can't remember the details, other than that Rambus never got to that point).

[Che Guevara]

@dZeus

Sorry, but you're totally wrong . Fastest P3 plattform ever was intels OR840B with i840 carmel chipset, the i820 boards owns the second place in performance ladder for P3, of course i815 was stable too and not slow, but even not really fast (BX was still faster).

Believe me, I use a camino board and in memory benchmarks (for example pcmark2002) I totally beat a i815e-system with a fsb and memory clock of 143 mhz, 2-2-2 timings and a bit higher clocked CPU!!!
In most games I get the performance of a 1,2 Ghz thunderbird-b, thats not normal for a 1Ghz coppermine .

A memory bandwith which is higher than the cpu bandwith is useful (a celeron with 100 mhz fsb ferforms better with pc133 than with pc100, thats a fact) because agp, pci and ide transferst need bandwith too.

Intel itself said that the 815 would be faster, but that was a marketing lie, only trust your own benchmarks

I suggest you to read my old post in a rambus thread about problems of sdram interface too.

Further the introduction of rdram some years before the netburst architecture was finished, has nothing to do with plans for P4 , intel wanted rambus to become standard ram for desktop p3s.

Fast, stable and, at last, exotic: Rambus forever! Rambus never dies!

[dZeus]

sure rdram gives higher memory throughput in synthetic benchmarks, but does it do anything for realworld performance on P3? no.

And for 815 being faster than Intel's own 840 chipset in their own benchmarks being marketing? LOL, sure, that's why they immediately removed the benchmarks when it put their i820 & i840 chipsets in a bad light... right

and a P3 1GHz being faster than a Thunderbird 1.2 GHz... perhaps when you would run the thunderbird on the worst motherboard on the planet or something, otherwise no chance in hell.

look, I can't help if you paid waaaay too much for something that was slower than the much cheaper alternative at the time, but please don't make up silly stories how it would be faster, when everyone knew it wasn't.. thx

[Che Guevara]

It does anything for 'realworld performance' of P3. That's typical, isn't it?
You don't like Rambus (and it sounds you don't like Intel too ...) and say that i820 & i840 suck. I use a i820 (DO YOU EVER USED ONE???? I'm sure you didn't.) and you don't believe me, your problem.

Of course the performance is normally only a little bit better than with a i815e, but I don't pay much money for my hardware, I know where to buy it...

Further Thunderbird (B) 1.2 Ghz was running on a KT266, a normal chipset at the time the benchmark was made (compared for example Max Payne and others).
I wrote in most games (not in all of them!) I get the performance of a 1.2 Ghz Thunderbird, but nothing about 'a p3 1Ghz that is FASTER than a TB 1.2 Ghz, please read exactly.

At synthetic benchmarks: My system beat the 143 fsb system (it was good configured by hard- and software, at this time I used a sucking GF2Pro like the compared system too) mentioned in my last post in game benmarks/timedemos as good as in 3dMark and pcMark and sisoft and so on .

At intels benchmarks: Intel faked the benches because they wanted themselfes to get away from the public image of Intels favourites the 'expensive' rambus. The i815 should restaurate the image of intel corp.

When data in 'big blocks' is written into the ram rdram is very fast, just compare things like level load times (thats often as important as framerate). Former I used a i820 with a P3-500, AVP 2 and WC3 levels were loaded at a quarter of the time a newer Athlon 900 System with pc-133 2-2-2 of a friend needed.

But I have another idea, the performance of p3/rambus system could further be increased by using pc-800-40 ram too...

My 'stories' aren't silly, I just try to fight the negative hype!!!!
Everybody hate Rambus, everybody hate Parhelia, but they don't really know why. Thats what I call negative Hype. Man, thats great hardware!

If you want to live forever with your prejudices about any hardware which is not the same as everyone uses (DDR/Athlon/nVidiot/FanATIc/Via/and so on), I can't help you, sorry .

... and I'm glad that you're wrong again with your 'everyone knew it wasn't'. There many people (of course not enough) out there which know enough about hardware to know that you're totally wrong this time (please don't raise a quarrel, I don't want that and it makes no sense) believe me.

[Byock]

I think you are confused. The i815 Chipset was the chipset of choice by companies, and gamers for a reason. True Rambus RAM was faster, no one is disputing this, however, for the P3? Bah! The was NO real world difference between PC133, and Rambus, on the P3 systems.
Have I used them? Yes.
Is it worth the price? Nope.

We don't hate Rambus, we just refuse to pay alot of money for a minimal increase in performance.

Just my .02

[Technoid]

It's Time Again!

[Novdid]

If my memory serves me, the fastest board for the P3 was and still is the BX (albeit OC'ed), then the i815, i840 and i820 respectively.

And I always thought the thunderbird (133MHz) was faster than the P3 at the same clocks on say a KT133a.

[Che Guevara]

@Byock: NO, I'm not confused. You're right when you say that the performance difference is minimal, but the price has nothing to do with the technical data and the question which system is faster!!!!!!!!
Please, understand this!!
'What should I buy?' and 'What would be the best I can buy?' are different questions!
Actual, the SiS R659 is the best you can buy because it is not only the fastest and flexible solution (because you can use so many channels you want to), it will support the intel tejas processor too, i865 and i875 don't do that because of the needed voltage, **** intel. Further, Canterwood and Springdale don't have enough bandwith for fsb1066 .

Again, I paid just 90€ for one 256 Pc800 rimm and gonna use it on my new sis R659 too, and I don't say that everyone should buy rambus at the normal price for a p3, I just say it is the fastest memory option for p3, thats a fact)
The performance increase is not worth the normal price but there is definitly a performance increase (and again, I didn't pay the normal price).
... and I don't know what you did wrong with your p3/rambus system, but I think you understand that I believe the computer I sit in front of at the moment, and not you (did you use a fsb 100 p3? Rambus makes only sense with a high clocked coppermine EB with fsb 133).
I should add that my Asus CUC2 is the last and the fastest i820(e) board that was produced...

@Novdid: Overclocked BX was the fastest board for P3, but not overclocked it was a little bit slower than i840&820. Further a friend used the ABit BX133Raid (overclocked by abit), and it crashed totally after a few months .
Of course a overclocked rambus system is faster than an overclocked bx too, because the rambus likes a high fsb .
At last: A B-Thunderbird has a fsb of 100mhz(DDR), and a 133 mhz fsb thunderbird is of course faster than a p3 at the same clock (even with rambus ...).

@Technoid: They don't know they are dumb? You're right, but not the way you think, sorry .
But do you have anything to say that makes really sense in this thread?
Or did you just post your nice little picture about 4395 times and nothing else ?

[The PIT]

Sadly price has a lot do with what you can afford to replace in one go.
You've also got to consider the price performance ratio and unless rambus drops in price a lot. It won't be worth buying for that 0.0001 sec faster that Word opens or that extra 5 or 6 fps that you're unlikely to notice anyway.

[Kurt]

90€ for 256MB PC800
90€ for 512MB DDR333

hmmm....

why in hell do you bother putting outdated PC800 RIMM in a chipset you know is slower than Intel i850??? Get PC1066 or PC1200....You're building a system that's more expensive _and_ slower...

RAMBUS is good for one thing: streaming large chunks of data. Where do you get to use that? Office applications? No. Games? Not really. Video editing: there you go. This is not an optimal general purpose PC. DDR is better suited if you do a bit of everything.

[Technoid]

Originally posted by Che Guevara
@Technoid: They don't know they are dumb? You're right, but not the way you think, sorry .
But do you have anything to say that makes really sense in this thread?
Or did you just post your nice little picture about 4395 times and nothing else ?

Well, the Pic is completely right

What you are doing is much like going into a meeting of the national rifle association screaming “Ban Guns”

You are stupid, because you still live in the past brief moment of history when Rambus pronounced themselves rulers of the universe and believed that they had invented everything and Intel behaved in maschocistic fervor.

All we other live in the present where Rambus is all but dead and RDram is till something that is best on paper and not in reality

Back when all this was current we also had this discussion and it was concluded then that while Rambus on paper was faster it didn't do any positive difference for P3 cpu's in reality, and its in reality we live (well some don't ).

There is a saying that history is written by the Victorious, and it wasn't Rdram that wrote

[Che Guevara]

@Kurt: I paid 90€ for the rimms at a time they normally cost about 200€ (By the way: I paid 80€ for my board too). The chipset you mean ('is slower than i850') is the sis R658 with no support for pc1200, without
SiS MuTIOL® 1G and with only two channels and so on...
Streaming large chunks of data? Yes, what about loading times in games like unreal 2, that makes a difference too in enjoying such a game.

@The PIT: Again: 'What offers good performance for an affordable price?' and 'What would be the fastest I could use?' (that is only a technical question, not more) are different questions.
Extra 5 or 6 fps on P3 with rambus? Thats exactly what I mean, not more.
If it is worth the higher price everyone must decide self. We are on the same level now, I'm happy .

@Technoid:
Now first of all, I HATE THE NRA (long live Michael Moore)!

No, I am not really a stupid, I am just a almost died out kind of funny animal, called 'intellectual'.
You insult me in a online forum while discussing about hardware, who is the stupid my friend?

Further, I am a guy doing things like going into a meeting of the national rifle association screaming “Ban Guns” .

I live in the past? My thread started with a chipset coming third quarter of 2003, later I mentioned the XDR, coming 2004. Is this the past? Now, it seems I am very nostalgic .

Rambus whas best in paper and not in reality? Don't falsity the reality, neither rambus nor reality can help you if you can not afford rdram. It is a fact that it was the fastest memory solution for p4 a long time, and it will be the fastest again.

[Kurt]

I don't know when you bought your RIMM, but they've been selling at 90€ for 256MB for a while now. I get them at 40€ in combo with Asus boards.

Also, if you want to compare, tell me what benchmarks you want me to run, I just got back an Asus P4T533 with 2*256MB PC800. If you can't be convinced otherwise, I'll run some benchmarks when I come back end of august with an SIS 659 board (given I can find one). I'll pit them against a regular 865PE board.