The IT industry is shifting away from Micro$oft

[The PIT]

Originally posted by TransformX
The Pit,

Neither crashed or gave me any problems.
Redhat's setup (anaconda ?) was much nicer and more comprehensive than Win2k's.
Better graphics, less vague, more options (if I want them) etc. etc. etc.
Forget everything you know about windows for a second, take a new computer and go through the setup process of Win2k vs. RedHat 9 and you'll see which is more comprehensive and intuitive.

In win2k as well as with Redhat I needed to get the latest driver online etc. Redhat was harder to configure (Init 3, text editing) but looked much better before and after using generic vesa driver compared with windows's 640x480@4bit color.

edit: by the way, I'm far from being a linux fanboy. Especially after destroying my current installation X setup while trying to update my graphic driver. What I'm sayin is that Linux is running forward at full speen while microsoft are getting lazy.

Microsoft started by imitating other companies. Now that they destroyed most of them, they kind of froze.

Disagree I'm afraid I've probably done more clean installs than you have had. Something to do with working with 20,000 users may have something to do with that. Windoze is easier for the newbie.
Also Windows goes to 16bit colour by default well it does when I install it.
Great isn't it destroying Linux by driver upgrades. Did you know I once destroyed RH 5 by deleting a none working Wordperfect install. Next time I rebooted it wouldn't load at all.

[TransformX]

Gurm, as you can see I didn't comment about XP nor 2003 since I never really gave them a chance. I hope I never will because of all the DRM built into them.

BeOS had a working default VESA driver more than two years ago.
If it failed, it would default to 800x600@4bit shades of grey.
Win2k could have had it as well.

My advice, take one of the two mainstream Linuxes (RedHat or Suse), put ximian on top and start playing. Once you're confident, move on.
As it currently is, Linux is already as good (if not better) as Windows NT4.0 to say the least. Since you worked with NT4.0 for quite long and did learn to like it, I'm more than certain that you could enjoy linux.

[TransformX]

Originally posted by The PIT
Disagree I'm afraid I've probably done more clean installs than you have had. Something to do with working with 20,000 users may have something to do with that. Windoze is easier for the newbie.
Also Windows goes to 16bit colour by default well it does when I install it.
Great isn't it destroying Linux by driver upgrades. Did you know I once destroyed RH 5 by deleting a none working Wordperfect install. Next time I rebooted it wouldn't load at all.

Not long ago, windows could have been 'destroyed' exactly the same way by updating some display drivers around here...

Windows is easier for people conditioned into "knowing" that IDE0 is actually Drive C only without knowing what IDE0 is.
If you put aside all your knowledge and (try to) start with a blank page, you'll understand my statement.

[The PIT]

Got to admit I never managed to destroy windoze by getting the wrong driver. ATI have tried very hard with their many versions of rage drivers resulting in a black screen.
Starting with a blank page. Windoze is easier so we're going to agree to disagree.
As for Microshaft it's got to big. It's a bit like a Oil tanker that needs too change course to avoid a rock. Nine times out of ten it hits it.
Saying that XP after sp1 is the most stable OS I've come across. The only time I know it to fail is due to hardware errors or user deleting things they shouldn't do or trying to use 95/98 drivers.

[MultimediaMan]

The PIT:

Microsoft getting too big? Maybe, but in their "Bigness", they are rolling out better and less bug-ridden products than from before.

FUBARs happen (with every OS, I might a add), but it's been a while since there was a major one that brought Windows Systems down outright. (Tho' Some Win2K SP-3 to SP4 Migrators might disagree...)

I, for one, LIKE their new "Once a Month" Patch release schedule...downtime can be minimized or even eliminated in many cases.

Slower, sure progress is much better than a rush to patch.

You also have to consider the amount of testing that has to occur...the install base of Windows is IMMENSE. Literally Tens of Million Machines, and you know what?

M$ can and does give us patches on a regular basis with very few problems, statistically speaking.

(Insert your Favorite Windows Update Horror Story Here...I've yet to see a problem on my machines, here at home: At Work, problems are usually traced to a corrupt patch.)

Larger Corporations have to move slower on things like that, because there is more to do: more applications of lessons learned, more cross checks, and more knowledge to sift through to get the product out.

Linux developers happily write code and kick it out to the world...And the World Is Their Beta Tester. Yes, this means You.

Examples from the past 5 weeks in Linux:

"Gee, our latest Distro Turns into a Paper Weight your CD-ROM Drive?...We're so sorry, we'll look into that bug real soon."

"Wow, didn't you know that Root Access Exploit could turn your 16CPU Beowulf Cluster into a Group of Casually Associated Adding Machines, because the guy who mops the floor of your datacenter think he's a Linux Guru?"

[RC Agent]

Originally posted by Gurm
But this is exemplary of the PROBLEM with Linux. Someone forgets a '-', and instead of just coming out and saying "yeah there's a problem with that" they say "**** off you retard". At least Microsoft wastes a couple hours of my time having me TRY things (even if they're ultimately useless), and never EVER swears at me or tells me to "go away you retard".

And from this experience you came away with a bad taste for Linux in general??

[Gurm]

No, that is a single incident which best illustrates the overall attitude of self-styled Linux gurus.

Even if you ask a completely retarded question about Windows on a forum, you'll get a half dozen insulting answers that actually contain information.

Ask the same retarded question on a Linux forum and you'll just get banned, or they'll sign you up for lots of spam out of spite.

- Gurm

[RC Agent]

Originally posted by Gurm
Suggestions as to a distro that won't PISS ME OFF? I'd love to give it a fair chance, honestly. Here's what I need to do with this box:

- Host Apache server
- Host MySQL server
- Run PHP under Apache
- Host FTP server
- Host sourcecode for ongoing projects (via CVS or some reasonable facsimile)
- Host samba files

I do NOT need to host a firewall, my wireless setup is now configured for that just fine.

So, suggestions?

- Gurm

I recently installed Fedora on a box and just configured apache on it. It was painless. But then again, I wasn't doing anything fancy.
1. Edited hpptd.conf
2. Placed my web docs into the proper directory
3. Start apache
I can't comment on the other services, as I'm not running them at this time.

[The PIT]

Anyway Home Linux has gone fubar for know apparent reason. Runs on P4 3gig like it's a 286 with 1mb of ram. Video drivers were giving errors removed those and used standard drivers so now I have no errors and still a slow slow desktop.
Perhaps I've got a virus.

[Byock]

You seem to forget, each has it's place. Would I rush out and replace all the PC's in our Company with a new Linux OS? No. Linux is not for the corporate desktop. Maybe that will change, right now, no. Servers, SMALL BUSINESS.

Ok, I start a new small business. Linux just makes sense. Free, easy to setup Samba, and Apache. Easy to use, and very reliable. With the new GUI tools, and Webmin, any windows admin who knows anyting at all can set that up.
Firewall. Small companies are not about to get a PIX Firewall. OpenBSD is the answer. Very easy firewall rules, and with AuthPF, you have a vpn with a simple connection from Putty. Cost $0. Easy and simple.
Large companies, MS has in a strangle hold. It is way to expensive to replace with linux. Custom apps, with kill your TCO.
I think companies are adding more and more linux servers in addition to their MS and Unix boxes, and this will continue to grow. As linux matures, I could see it being a threat to MS.

So, one or the other is not the answer. They each have their place, and neither will be leaving anytime soon(TM).

[TransformX]

Originally posted by The PIT
Perhaps I've got a virus.

Sometimes it's a simple problem with the link between the chair and the keyboard (kidding ya mate ).

[The PIT]

Somebody thinks that samba is simple to setup.


Samba is the women of the linux world. It can work striaght out of the box and then next time it won't. One day it can be working the next day not.

Samba should be simple to set up.

Gui those the things that sometimes don't do anything under linux aren't they. You end editing the damn file yourself.

[The PIT]

Originally posted by TransformX
Sometimes it's a simple problem with the link between the chair and the keyboard (kidding ya mate ).

Not this time. System no play System sulk System will show no errors. User formats hard drive and uses it as an raid array instead.

[Byock]

I guess you have never set up Microsoft Exchange before then. Get RPC over HTTP working in Exchange 2003 is much worse than ANYTHING I have done in Linux. MS tech supprt gave up, so I fixed it myself. They called me back to ask how I fixed it, because the couldn't. How's that for good support?? They did give me 2 free support calls for fixing THIER product though.

[The PIT]

Originally posted by Byock
I guess you have never set up Microsoft Exchange before then. Get RPC over HTTP working in Exchange 2003 is much worse than ANYTHING I have done in Linux. MS tech supprt gave up, so I fixed it myself. They called me back to ask how I fixed it, because the couldn't. How's that for good support?? They did give me 2 free support calls for fixing THIER product though.

Should have given you a job.