nVidia 6800.... Which one?

[Kurt]

Originally posted by leech
I don't really see PCI-Express catching on until probably the 2006-2007 timeframe. You have to figure that maybe some high-end gamers will go that route, but until more mainstream systems ship with PCI-Express, then AGP will still rule. By the way, what really is the advantage of it besides speed, which the AGP bus hasn't even really been fully utilized on?

Actually right now, I don't even have an AGP 8x board, but I don't know if there would be even the slightest difference in speed from the 4x to 8x.

Also, the thing about PCI-Express is that the confusion of all the 'standards' will hold it back... I mean there's PCI-X, PCI-E, I'm waiting for PCI-LSD... That's a poor joke, I know...

Leech

PCI-E is here, now. Starting this September, 60% of the systems will have it. The low end will catch up next year around the 2nd quarter.

PCI-E doesn't make any difference for VGA cards. It's too slow anyway...they have much faster onboard RAM. It has an impact on the time it takes to copy data from PC RAM to the onboard RAM, which doesn't happen all that often.

As for the confusion, there *is* no confusion. Maybe you're confused, but the general public has no clue about PCI-X (which is a mess of options). For them it's PCI => PCI-E. they don't even know there are variants in the PCI bus.

You never had a bad trip on the PCI standards have you?

[Greebe]

PCI-E is here, now. Starting this September, 60% of the systems will have it. The low end will catch up next year around the 2nd quarter.

Me thinks your crystal ball needs recalibration.

[leech]

The confusion won't arise simply due to them being different standards... it'll come because of the way people abbreviate things... I can easily see people start talking about PCI-X when they really mean the PCI-Express... since, most people are lazy when they talk. "Hey man, does your motherboard support the new PCI-Ex..."

@Greebe.

For once, I'm with you on this, I don't see it gaining ground until there is a real benefit. Or when the big shift starts going to 64bit computers. But then again.. I don't see THAT happening anytime really soon either. Sure, the high-end gamers will buy into them... but that's not what always makes a new technology work out. How many people do you personally know that want to go out and buy a whole new motherboard just to get support for PCI-E? Considering I haven't seen any other cards besides video cards that'll even work in them.

So far I've seen ATI, nVidia and Matrox have PCI-E cards in the works. But do anyone else?

Leech

As a side note, supposedly Longhorn will come out sometime in the next decade too

[Wombat]

Originally posted by Greebe
Me thinks your crystal ball needs recalibration.

No, I think he's right. My best info is a little bit old, but the OEMs really like, really want, PCI-Express. It makes it much easier for them to put together a system. It also lets them make "cute" PCs, because components can be more physically separated (those external connections I was talking about). Plus, Intel's chipsets are PCI-Express.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Christmas PCs this year are mostly PCI-Express.

[DGhost]

Originally posted by Kurt
PCI-E doesn't make any difference for VGA cards. It's too slow anyway...they have much faster onboard RAM. It has an impact on the time it takes to copy data from PC RAM to the onboard RAM, which doesn't happen all that often.

the theory that i have heard is that it will handle multiple data streams better and faster than traditional AGP. as an example, the ability to do multiple video overlays becomes a little bit cleaner and easier to do. from a data bus standpoint.

[Byock]

You did your test on a Radeon 9200? yeah, that's a good test. That would be like trying to test DX9 on an FX5200...

[Kurt]

Originally posted by Greebe
Me thinks your crystal ball needs recalibration.

yeah, look who's talking...at least I don't have a fish in mine...

I'm saying this because the whole Intel line up is PCI-E. They're shipping PCI-E mainboards in all segments. I expect the low end (ECS, ASrock,etc) will catch up next year with solutions from VIA and SIS (on Intel platforms) and maybe a bit later on the AMD platform, depending on demand.

Also, I expect the S478 socket to last another year or so (again for the low end to catch up), but you never know... Intel might EOL it sooner (maybe as soon as the P4 64bit hits the street).

The problem right now seems to get the new ATX PSUs with the 24pins connector. I haven't seen a single tower yet (here in Belgium). The actual PCI-E mainboards seem happy enough with te normal ATX 20pins connectors though...

[leech]

Originally posted by Byock
You did your test on a Radeon 9200? yeah, that's a good test. That would be like trying to test DX9 on an FX5200...

Well, considering it was simple 2D display that I was testing... the core for the 2D part of the 9200 and the 9800 or whatever else would be the same... same drivers, same 2D core.

So you're saying that the 9800 can do 2D display, but the 9200 can't? Since a FX5200 doesn't support the DirectX9 features....

You make about as much sense as going to church when you don't believe in god.

Leech

[bsdgeek]

Originally posted by Kurt
yeah, look who's talking...at least I don't have a fish in mine...

LOL, that was pretty good.

[Byock]

Originally posted by leech
Since a FX5200 doesn't support the DirectX9 features.... Leech

I think you need to borrow Greebe's crystal ball, or a web browser.

Look
Here.

" GPU- NVIDIA® GeForce FX 5200
DirectX 9 and OpenGL1.4 support
AGP 8X support "

And I am sure all companies use the same quality parts, RAM DAC, CORE, etc.. on their flagship as opposed to their lowest end parts.

[leech]

Originally posted by Byock
I think you need to borrow Greebe's crystal ball, or a web browser.

Look
Here.

" GPU- NVIDIA® GeForce FX 5200
DirectX 9 and OpenGL1.4 support
AGP 8X support "

And I am sure all companies use the same quality parts, RAM DAC, CORE, etc.. on their flagship as opposed to their lowest end parts.

So then how does the comparison on the 2D problems of a Radeon card (9200 in this case) and it's drivers, compare at all with a FX5200 using DX9? I recall reading somewhere that it supported DX9, but not all of it's features. 2D and 3D performance has very little to do with each other. And you're comparing the use of a programming API with something that is built into the drivers of ATI to set the quality and it screws it up? You make no sense... then again, I guess that's why you're a chicken.

I guess ATI should specify support for a 2D display...and quality settings...

Maybe you should borrow a brain.

And what does using quality parts on flagship products have to do with anything? As far as the Geforce clones? As others have already stated, Leadtek uses better quality components. Just like Matrox uses high quality components on all their cards. You don't know Jack... If you're referring to the "low-end" 9200 then once again, you're a moron... a bug like that is due to the core, not due to a difference in ramdac, etc. It's a DRIVER or hardware issue!

Leech

P.S. And for the record, who knows what the FX5200 supports... you go to nVidia's website, and click on the part where it says DX9 at the bottom and it leads to a "Page not found"

[leech]

Yeah... ATI's drivers don't suck at all.... Flagship product???

http://forums.murc.ws/showthread.php?postid=481126#post481126

Leech

[Marshmallowman]

5200 is a dx9 card...except that the performance in dx9 is laughable. A dx9 card that is not usable in dx9 ?

I would call it effectively a dx8.1 card...unless you like slide shows

[Byock]

Originally posted by leech
The issues I've seen with the ATI drivers... go into the control panel and switch the settings on Direct3D from normal quality to Best Quality and see what it does... on a 9200, (at least I think that's what the card was) it totally borked the mouse and the computer had to be rebooted.

Now if a simple thing like that will totally mess up operability... then no thanks....

And it did this with 2 different driver sets.

Leech

WTF?? 2D?? You were complaining about settings in 3D... Uh.. yeah...

I think you need to stop smoking things, and clear your head a little.

[Byock]

Originally posted by leech


P.S. And for the record, who knows what the FX5200 supports...

My guess would be Asus, and everyother OEM making FX5200...

And I need to borrow a brain? *laughs*

Again, use google, it does tell you EXACTLY what the 5200 supports.

P.S. Didn't you say countless times you would never own an NV card??