Vista: The 'Huh?' starts now

[Mehen]

Oh well, at least my post count is gettin up there.

[agallag]

I personally know three people who switched to Mac, and then switched back to PC within 6-9 months. Macs have two very well defined markets.

1. Absolute newbies who want to check their email and surf myspace
2. Hardcore unix hackers who want a nice GUI on top

Pretty much everyone in between can have a better experience for less money with a PC. Just my opinion, and that's all I have to say on the subject.

[Jessterw]

You forgot two...

3. Graphics artists, web designers, and other creative types
4. A growing number of Java and other cross-platform developers

That's if you want to group people into categories to make sweeping statements like that.

[Admiral]

PCs are about freedom of choice, you can change everything in them and install pretty much anything on them to improve your experience.
Whoever says PCs will be replaced by consoles or other gadgets is wrong.

[agallag]

You forgot two...

3. Graphics artists, web designers, and other creative types
4. A growing number of Java and other cross-platform developers

That's if you want to group people into categories to make sweeping statements like that.

Both of those categories fall into the "everyone in between can have a better experience for less money with a PC" category. Just because a lot of them choose to use macs doesn't make it the better option. Again, that's my opinion, and I know Mac fans will disagree.

I've seen too many people in categories like that try Macs, and come crawling back to me to build them a more powerful PC with the money they got from selling their used Mac.

[Jessterw]

PCs are about freedom of choice, you can change everything in them and install pretty much anything on them to improve your experience.
Whoever says PCs will be replaced by consoles or other gadgets is wrong.

Well there's certainly no doubt about that. Technology pundits having been claiming the PC (and that includes Macs as shocking as that may be to some) is dead for years now and they could have never been more wrong.

Both of those categories fall into the "everyone in between can have a better experience for less money with a PC" category. Just because a lot of them choose to use macs doesn't make it the better option. Again, that's my opinion, and I know Mac fans will disagree.

I've seen too many people in categories like that try Macs, and come crawling back to me to build them a more powerful PC with the money they got from selling their used Mac.

See the problem is that we're all going on our own personal experiences. I know plenty of developers who have moved from Windows to Linux and to OS X (and by that, moving to Macs), none of whom have switched back. Sure, lots of them - including myself - would love to see OS X on standard PC hardware. If you belong to that percent of the population that can build your own PC then you can certainly get more bang for your buck over buying a Mac. Then again that's true against any of the big PC vendors like Dell.

I choose to use a Mac because I prefer using OS X over Windows or Linux. At this point in the game, OS X is most certainly the better option for me. To that end, most people who choose to use a Mac have found that it most certainly is the best option for them. Just like those that have tried using a Mac and moved on have found that an alternative was the best option for them. I know and know of a few long-time Mac users (developers) that have switched to Linux, though that's largely because they've embraced OSS and have issues with some of Apple's lock-in.

Switching from one OS to another is hard enough, but switching to a Mac requires a change in OS and in the nature of the hardware. For some it's just not a change they grow accustomed to. I know too many people who buy a Mac, use it for a couple weeks, and then go back to their PC and Windows. They assumed that the Mac mantra of "easy to use" meant they would instantly be able to do everything they wanted in the same way they did under Windows. Sadly that's an assumption many Mac promoters have pushed unto new users. It's no different than someone switching to Linux or Windows from one OS or another.

You say a lot of Mac users may be using that platform even though it's not their best option. The same could be said for Windows or Linux users, but that doesn't make it true. It's all about the right tool for the job and one's personal preferences. If one feels that OS X is the best OS for them, then who are you to assume otherwise? You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and there's definitely nothing wrong with suggesting to someone that they may be better off using X over Y. That's all part of believing in the choices you've made; being passionate about them in some cases.


It's rather amusing though that #3 in my additional categories has always been one of the main constituents of the Mac platform, and while many did make the move to Windows when Apple started it's downward spiral years ago, they are still an overwhelming part of the Mac community. As an active member of #4, I see the migrations happening and how overwhelmingly satisfied the majority who make the move are.

[DGhost]

As near as I can figure, OS X makes a far better dev platform than Linux does. But, then again, so is FreeBSD. Hmmm...

[Technoid]

I just realised that Mac is not a PC its a Consol

And what is it with mac switchers who also adopts the Apple/jobs religion?!?

I can understand that you love your new shining mac and that it is just right for you but why suddenly become a zealot for the Apple cause?

Sure you like mac and osx, and ofcourse you want to others to like it as well (I push for w2k so I cant deny you to push for osx) but why evangelisise Apple and Jobs?

Apple and jobs don't care shit for their customers, they care for the customers money!

Just like 80% of any other company.

[Jessterw]

I'm not sure if that was directed at me or not, but if so, you've mistaken my intent. I have desire to convince anyone to use a Mac or not, that's an entirely personal decision. Sure, I'll recommend one if it seems like one would be a good fit, but I still recommend plain ol' PCs as well.

As far as Jobs goes... well Jobs is an a-s-shat. That's about as simple as I can put it.


*shrug* I'm not out to change anyone's views one way or another. I've always gone with the notion that you choose the best tool for the job that fits into your way of doing things. I have pointed that out several times in these discussions as of late, but it's really that basic. Obviously some people don't get that.

[Admiral]

I just realised that Mac is not a PC its a Consol

Might as well be, it's got a fixed configuration in most cases

[Jessterw]

Except you can change out the memory, processor, hard disk, graphics adapter, etc...

Obviously that's only for the Mac Pros (PowerMacs) in most cases, and there's no argument that Macs are pretty well locked down to whatever configuration Apple decides to provide. Why do you think Dan and I would love to have OS X running on standard, build-it-yourself, PC hardware (officially, not with some ever breaking hack).

That's why I've always said Macs are an end-to-end experience that are almost more like a consumer device than a "real" PC. "Real" being the open-ended, do what you like nature of PCs.

[DGhost]

judging from their software development and business techniques, i seriously doubt they could ever support an open PC platform...

I mean shit... I've been running Quicktime/iTunes/etc on Vista for quite a while with mostly positive results, only a few issues here and there. What does Apple do? instead of trying to update their software to ensure compatability, they decide to leverage their market share with MP3's to try to dissuade customers from purchasing Vista...

[Jessterw]

Yeah, I'm not sure what's going on there, but they're certainly taking their sweet time fixing the compatibility issues. I'd like to assume that there's a justifiable reason for the delay, but I think the opposite is all the more likely.

I'm not surprised in the least though. Apple and Microsoft both are experts at delaying releases for new OS versions, or simply not providing them at all. Of course they both use new software versions to drive adoption of their own respective OS.

[ND66]

You forgot two...

3. Graphics artists, web designers, and other creative types
4. A growing number of Java and other cross-platform developers

and this one:

Both of those categories fall into the "everyone in between can have a better experience for less money with a PC" category. Just because a lot of them choose to use macs doesn't make it the better option. Again, that's my opinion, and I know Mac fans will disagree.

I've seen too many people in categories like that try Macs, and come crawling back to me to build them a more powerful PC with the money they got from selling their used Mac.

Sorry, not a Mac fan at all.

Yet, I do know a quite a few professionals who either do a Video or Photo editing on a Mac. And while they could get more PC power for their money, the software written for what they do on Mac is not only better, but also doesn’t crash like the Windows version do.

Mac is waaaay more stable than Windows PC and more powerful for many professionals out there.

Not to steer any waves, just my 2 cents... .

.

[Gurm]

Of course I've seen people working with Illustrator on the Mac recently. Saving to network on a Mac... uh... wow. Just wow. I know it's a gigantic file and all, but I can't imagine a file large enough to make my PC chug up the way it makes the Macs chug up.