Apple WWDC 2007 Keynote

[schmosef]

I need to stop though, I already sound like enough of a Mac zealot as it is

Uh, yeah...

[DGhost]

I really don't give a shit as far as what apple copies and doesn't. same with microsoft. it's just a little disappointing that some of this stuff took so long to arrive en masse. Some of them are obviously good features and defiantely could have been implemented better than MS has in the past...

yeah, SideBar was ripped straight out of iTunes. i actually had a hard time telling the difference between Finder and iTunes.

anywho... yeah... I bet apple will start porting a lot of their core apps over... try to get into the Microsoft desktop space... look at the difference that iTunes has made in people buying into Mac's... they look at it, see how it is, then wonder what the platform is like... it's a good strategy and having the processor compatability will help. i bet that they have already made significant progress in making their libraries cross platform...


aaanywho.

[Jessterw]

Uh, yeah...

Someone has to balance out all the Windows fanboys around here

And in the spirit of things: http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/

[az]

anywho... yeah... I bet apple will start porting a lot of their core apps over... try to get into the Microsoft desktop space... look at the difference that iTunes has made in people buying into Mac's... they look at it, see how it is, then wonder what the platform is like... it's a good strategy and having the processor compatability will help. i bet that they have already made significant progress in making their libraries cross platform...

I bought a mac in spite of iTunes (and knowing that WinAMP is not available on that platform) and especially Quicktime. I couldn't know QuickTime on the mac is better (though by far not perfect, even with perian - no fullscreen? WTF!), iTunes is OK, though I miss having media library and playlist on the screen at the same time.

BTW, all those browser speed tests are not really user experience tests: In Opera, I often see the progress bar for a loooong time, trying to load some ads, while the site I'm visiting has finished loading long ago already and I'm reading it. Granted, often Opera seems to fail to load a page (displaying a blank window with progress bar that shows no traffic), and when I stop manually, the whole page appears, Opera was just waiting for some external element to be loaded.

[Mehen]

Since its been awhile since I've really compared Mac vs. PC (aren't macs still PCs??... anyways) pricewise, I thought I'd check out some Mac prices.

For me it's gotta be able to game. When I build a system I like it to have some legs. Usually a good 3 years+ worth. So future proofing for the next few years games means UT3, Crysis, Supreme Commander etc. So 2GB RAM, quadcore, good solid video, maybe a 500gb drive (games are huge now! SupCom is 8.5gb )

Neither the iMac or the MacMini have the horsepower so I elected for the Mac Pro.

Here's what I configured it to;
2x DualCore Xeon 2.67GHz
2GB DDR2 (4x512 was the only option, which is good, I don't like open slots...)
500GB SATA
Best vid they had was X1900XT 512mb, not too bad I suppose, would've liked 8800GTS.
DVD burner
No LCD, no extra software, no wireless.
Standard KB & Mouse.

Then I priced out the same PC machine at my fav place, ncix.com
2x Xeon 5030 2.67GHz 198x2 $396
2GB OCZ DDR2-800 (2x1GB) $90
TYAN Tempest 2xXeon LGA771 $490
WD 500GB SATA $130
X1950XT 512mb $381
DVD Burner $35
Antec P182 $140
Corsair 520W PSU $110
even threw in Vista Home Premium @ $144
KB & Mouse combo $40

One is 85% more than the other.

$1956 for the PC and $3612 for the Mac.

So am I paying 16 hamburgers more for a "superior" OS?

I would give the OS a chance if I didn't have to pay so %!@#ing much.

[Sasq]

not to nitpic, you are correct in that you pay more for a mac pro. and yes it is over priced.
1) sorry you still have empty slots on the memory, trust me. there are 2 board x 4 slots.

2) price a case a damn good and sturdy case - mac cases will survive the appocolipse.

3) the mac pro also comes with a few extras the tyan mobo does, like firewire 400 and 800

4) please expand on what the $35 dvd drive comes with?

again, I agree they are 'overpriced' but if you have ever been inside one, you appreciate it. Would I buy one with my money - no.
Where apple is shining atm, is with bang for buck on the macbooks.

[DGhost]

gotta throw this out there...

the Antec P182 is a pretty sturdy case, especially for what you pay for it. It's not a Lian Li, but it's only about half the cost and it definately doesn't skimp on the value...

on the other hand... i used to have this thing for these solid steel cases I could stand on... hehe.. best damn cases I used to own... and they only cost about $60 to boot

plus, you can pick up the NEC DVD+/-RW drives for about $35 online... dunno about these days, but they used to be pretty much the best thing you could pick up on the internet. I have two I've owned and they have had absolutely zero problems since I bought them, although I did pay a much higher price at the time.

anywho...

the Mac Pro uses FB-DIMM's right? doesn't make them that much more, except they tend to come in lower speeds... strange that Apple doesn't configure it for higher memory densities out of box...

edit:

again, I agree they are 'overpriced' but if you have ever been inside one, you appreciate it. Would I buy one with my money - no.
Where apple is shining atm, is with bang for buck on the macbooks.

this is, of course, simply been the truth of purchasing any Apple for a while...

[az]

The MacBooks are OK, price-wise, but not as good a deal anymore as when they were new. The MBP is too expensive, IMHO. The Mac Pro is much too expensive for home users, but if you think of it as a workstation (which it is), it's not so expensive anymore, compared to its brethren from HP etc.

[Jessterw]

Therein is the problem. You have to compare Macs against systems from other large vendors like HP and Dell, not anything custom built or from a small vendor. Dell (etc.) do manage to come out cheaper overall as they often bundle displays and peripherals and are always having special pricing on their systems - less cost for entry.

And you're not paying "more" for the OS, but rather the hardware design and the Apple brand. The same as for any brand-name.

If you're going to be doing a lot of gaming and want future expandability, then of course a Mac of any sort is not the right choice. That's what it's about anyhow - the platform (OS and hardware) that does what you need. Everything else is fluff.



Now, those Apple Cinema Displays... those are overpriced and not nearly as nice (save for style) as the ones Dell offers, which happen to use a lot of the same parts.

[Nowhere]

No, not larger vendors...it's simply that Apple doesn't have bottom end; but people don't realise that and assume that cheapest Macbooks must be comparable to cheapest Wintel laptops, or that iMacs and Mac mini compare to cheapest desktop PCs...

[Jessterw]

I was referring to the higher-end as well. But yes, Apple lacks the number of models across the price spectrum that others have. You can customize or choose between a couple models, but there's not a wide-range of price points.

[az]

They, for instance, lack a gaming capable desktop system (maybe that'll change now that EA etc. have announced to port more?); the mac pro is much more than that, the mac mini much less. A medium-sized mac, based on the mini, but larger and with a PEG slot, would be really nice.

And they don't have a subnotebook and no tablet. I'd love to have a 12" tablet with high-res screen from them.

[Mehen]

Even if you make the changes as suggested, you are still looking at a difference of at least $1k.

[Jessterw]

Rumour is that the mini shall be retired. I assume Apple will roll-out a replacement. As for a system that is more in-line with the standard gaming PC, I'm not sure. It certainly seems like a logical step for Apple to release on with the recent EA and ID news. But we're talking Apple here and Jobs can take his sweet time introducing products that everyone sees as natural progression.

[DGhost]

i'm not so sure that you are going to see Apple release a gaming centric system...

the iMac's already have x1600's and 7300's in them... the Mac Pro's have 7300's and x1900's... all it would really take is for them to do a bump on their graphics hardware to bring it inline with the PC side of the house and they will be as gaming ready as they ever have...

and then they have the MacBook Pro's shipping with 8600M's out of box...

it's not really needed for them to tweak their product line much... at least in their eyes...