Computer Audio - How bad is it?

[Haig]

Here you go:
http://www.terratec.net/ttus/default.htm
http://www.echoaudio.com
http://www.guillemot.com/northamerica/index.html

Haig

[KvHagedorn]

Where did you used to work, Bixler? Sounds like you know the business real well! Some people are real sleazes when they shop for audio aren't they?

------------------
Kind Regards,

KvH

[RAB]

KvH,
I worked in a couple of audio stores after I got out of college. That was twenty years ago and were I really became a geek.
RAB

[DentyCracker]

I am not buying that jagged edge thing. I agree that there must exist quantization noise when digitally sampling any signal and also admit that at the higher frequencies it is worse. What I don't agree with is whether it is audibly different from the original sample. My ears were tested by audiometry to reliably hear up to 21kHz. You'd need to be able to hear reliably above 22050 Hz to be able to hear that noise. The digital if done properly will always be more faithful to the original than analog. What sounds better is subjective. Most people like the distorted analog sound because they are used to it. That's my 2 cents

[Bixler]

KvH:

A VERY small Mid-to-High end audio shop in one of America's faceless malls.

I LOVED it, but had to enter the twelve-step program for sound addicts in order to support my family. But the PROBLEM is, it did give me a background in the language (particularly the modifiers--adjectives, adverbs and such) of technology...and the same game exists in Computers. Let the buyer beware, and read every word if you are going to fall into the trap of spec comparisons!

Example here:
http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000986.html

Note Haig's response regarding "Transfer rate" vs. "Maximum Burst Transfer rate"!!

[Greebe]

I've been reading this thread and stayed out of it... although KvH and I agree on some facts. If one wishes to use expletives, hit me! I've been there, done that too (Hey my first love was/is speaker design )

B&W's are some of the finest made... (Mod'd DQ10 are great!) but to another point, many don't enjoy music flat, clean and clear! The (improper) use of equalizers always astounds me, why people always boost and not cut? Because they don't know how to compensate for abnormalities correctly. Case in point, when ever any soundtrack is louder it sounds better to the average person, that is until they hear it properly (ie compensated)! Ones ear must be edjucated for this to happen and once it does, you'll begin to hear the flaws in the original soundtrack (with approiate equipment of course)

Most revelant aspect of High Q vs Low Q speakers (B&W 801's were low Q ~.7, similar to transmission line designs) produce the cleanest bass, tightest, purest bass, whereas the masses prefer Higher Q designs (more boom, Q of ~1.4 or (way!) greater) like Cerwin Vega's. This is because of design influences, Rock & Pop vs Classical/Jazz that the intendended speaker was marketed for. Matched preamps/amps/speakers is a limited point. If the speaker isn't properly compensated for (zobel) it'll do as it pleases, reguardless of the Quality (Q/dampening) of the Amp. Another point is crossovers typically induce gross amounts of phase distortion.

Bottom line is this... The speaker is the final link, you get what you pay for/what your looking for. They produce the most distortion (bass distortion typically exceeds 10%!). Buy what you want, get what you hear is personally better. But if I hear another person claim Bose is best, I'll puke!

[RAB]

Greebe,
Glad to see another speaker builder here. My DQ 10's are modified, of course. The standard stuff - mirror imaged, mylar caps. Got the sub, too. Had to put in a new woofer when the old one rotted away. i put in an 8" Audax and its not very good. Got any suggestions on a good 10" for the main. I'm thinking SEAS.

I also built a small pair two years ago which my daughter uses. 6.5" and 1" Vifa's with 1st order Xovers. I tried a ported cabinet and didn't get the bass quite right.

RAB

P.S. That's why I have the Radio Shack SPL meter that I used for the measurements earlier in this thread.

[DentyCracker]

Spot on Greebe. I silently and stealthily go into my cousin's room and tone down his eq settings. The problem is that many people aren't used to "flat" music and in fact look on "flat" music as a bad thing. When I defeat the EQ (His Technics DX930 Dolby Digital Receiver sound good without) he complains that it sounds flat. It took years for me to convince him that Realistic SuperTweeters were not the best ever and in fact were unsuited to the system he had at the time. Flat is good. Good clean heavy undistorted bass consistent with the rest of the music is excellent. Some people say I am a bass freak, I disagree, boomy bass causing chestiness in moderately low frequencies is one of the worst things I can hear. To me the Klipsch is a little bright in the 6-16k region so I cut theses frequencies a little in sonique or xmms.

[Ghydda]

Right ON!

Listen to Greebe & DentyCracker guys!!!

They most curtain knows apples from oranges!

They get my vote for being objective, sincere and well arguemented!

And my problem is that I cannot afford to replace my old Cervin Vega boom boxes to something that reproduces the sound more correct.

Ghydda, tried many things, currently using active filter insted of the original passive ones (it did improve things, but not nearly enough).

[Greebe]

RAB, I'm thinking Dynaudio, like the 24w100's or 30w100's. They're rather expensive, but the highest quality bass (subs) drivers made. They also boast the lowest THD and IMD of ANY made! I'm sure they'll please you
Another good source is Zalytron.

The guys @ {url=http://www.madisound.com]Madisound[/url] are top notch! And can answer most any Q you could possibly throw at them.

Denty, ROFL I've done that and get the same responce Klipsch's are rather bright in the uppermidrange.

Ghydda, the reason for the boomyness (what a word) is the cabinet's to small... but you could try detuning the port by increasing it's length. This will lower the port freq and shift it below system resonance, thus reducing that darn boom. Try using a "Pringles" can if it's the same diameter!

[Bixler]

Of course Greebe, I went out of business giving advice to cut instead of boost when using EQ's.

Oh, Well, it's only the truth, even if folks can't believe their ears.

I used to use one of those Advent speaker comparators that compared speakers at equal sound pressure levels rather than the same volume settings--folks wouldn't trust it though. Even after in home lessons on the proper use of an EQ, I'd come back later to find the usual 'smile' setting, or every slider jammed to the top.

guy would say "Duh! it sounds better to me..."

[HollyBerri]

To respond to Elemental_DH's question about Polk Audio...

My office just got 3 PC's (2 HPs and one Compaq...) with the Polk 2-speaker kit.... They sound really good... so good, in fact, that I traded my old PCWorks and am using the 2-speaker set that the office did not even hook up (I work in a temp agency, and this is a PC for the temps to test on, so no need for the speakers. We have others... some PMPO crap, if they need 'em....).

I'm actually thinking hard about getting the 3 speaker kit (with sub) and doing my surround with Polk, instead of going for the Klipsch...

So that's my answer.....

... and here's my new .sig (sans speakers, though....). Drop by the new Monster thread in The Box if you want the whole story about this...

------------------
Holly

Yeah, yeah, system specs, whatever...

System 1, (up and in the shower--i.e. Configuration Mode):

DFI 2BXPL, Celeron 333 (not currently o/c), 1 stick 128MB PC100 SD

RAM, Maxtor 20GB HDD (woohoo!), Phillips Mag 107B 17" monitor;
Acer 10X DVD-ROM, HP 8100i CD-RW;
G400 MAX , Diamond Monster Sound MX300, Iwill Ultra66 controller, Trend 10/100 Fast Ethernet controller (disabled), Cirrus Logic v.90 PCI modem;
USB webcam and Acer 620 USB scanner;
....and a PS/2 keyboard and mouse ( )

System 2 (still in bed with the covers over its head):

A-Trend 6130 LX board, PII-266, 1 stick 128MB PC100 SDRAM, Maxtor 20GB HDD (yes, I bought 2; they were on sale!!);
Nakamichi 5-disk CD changer;
Iwill Ultra66 Controller (yes, I bought 2), Trend 10/100 Fast Ethernet card (bought 4), and my trusty old cards-- G200 8MB SGRAM , Ensoniq Soundscape, Boca Research 33.6 ISA modem;
...and a standard keyboard and PS/2 trackball (Logitech Marble, fyi )

Well, you asked....! All right, you didn't ask.... tough noogies.



[This message has been edited by HollyBerri (edited 09 January 2000).]