electrical wiring

[VJ]

The floor plan is quite easy, I already have drawn it...

Difficulties could be phone and TV cable (I don't plan to use TV at this time, but I would want the cabling present - you never know what the future brings). For both I have no clue where it enters, but I have 2 phone cables just coming out from the walls and 3 TV cables (although one might not be working).

Other difficulty is satellite: the building will be renovated on the outside, and they will not allow satellite dishes. I have a closed balcony but it has double glass window so I don't know if the satellite signal can be received there. But if it can, I would need to get the cables from there; if it cannot and a common dish is put on the roof, I would need the cables from another location... So still not sure what to do here...

Network now seems easy, but one question: can I put a switch in a wardrobe...? I think this is not a good place to put it (but there is a wardrobe surrounding the fusebox area). I would have to see if I can find a better location... Perhaps the top shelf of the wardrobe, and a cutout in the back panel for ventilation...?

[Chucky Cheese]

Network switch

I do not see a problem with putting a switch in a closet, at work we have dedicated closets for LAN equipment(IDF-intermediate distribution frame), you will need an outlet for power and I would reccommend a 2.5 to 3.0 inch PVC pass through tube to drop your wires into the closet(flush mounted). Either a dedicated shelf or wall mount the switch with the LAN ports up toward the pass through and status lights facing down so that you can see link/status indicators.

[VJ]

Currently planning: 2 utp connections per room (including kitchen, and two more where my desk is), phoneline (at least in desk and living room, probably bedroom as well), cable TV (do not need it, but will keep it for future purposes) and satellite TV in bedrooms and living room. I suspect 2 UTP per room is sufficient... more seems a bit overkill.
For the satellite TV, the issue is still where the dish will be. For now it is allowed on the outside of the building, but it will be renovated and no dishes will be allowed outside. This could change still, so either it will be on the outside, on the balcony (provided it works through glass: balcony is closed) or on the roof (in which case the cable would come from another point). So I have to make sure to cover the options.

The good thing is that I lived in the apartment, and already noticed some poorly positioned switches (not where you would expect them to be) and sockets. So those are quite easy. I'll also add a ceiling light in the bedroom (there now is none) and one or two sockets on the closed balcony.

As for positioning the switch: in the corridor, right next to the fusebox is a cabinet with a large top shelf. I'll probably use that shelf exculsively for hardware. I found switches (dlink, ...) that have the connections on the opposite side of the activity lights, so that might be convenient - but they don't have enough ports (can I connect 2 of those?). If I also bring a phone line there, I can put the internet modem and router - perhaps even a NAS in time.

A big expense will be the lights: the living room has now 21 builtin spots... all 50 W which I intend to replace with LEDs... The main argument is the heat generated by them, but I have a feeling I'll probably pay as much just in LED lights as I would for the rest of the cabling.

[Chucky Cheese]

Switches

Yes...you can daisy chain switches. While I am not aware of any rules that govern this type of setup I used a high-to-low port ordering...highest number port to the lowest number port on the downstream switch with devices connected in between using patch cables.

I have two 5-port dlink gigabit switches(..unmanaged) connected like this. 1 is on the back of my entertainment center for the devices there and it is connected to the one in the low voltage wire cabinet in the basement via the structured wiring that I ran through out the house, then that one is patched into the router. I have had zero problems with this setup.

[VJ]

Now I remember my confusion: I confused daisy chaining with stacking (connecting multiple switches to act as one big switch)... I do believe there is a limit on the number of switches in the daisy chain, but that will be no problem.

[Chucky Cheese]

The Plan

Great...sounds like your all set. Do you have a tenative completion date?

[VJ]

The plan is to completely restore to original wooden floor while I'm away for a conference. The restauration implies you are not allowed to walk on it (polishing, ...). And the conference is at the end of May (21-27).
Before that we should (in order): do the electricity, fix damages done by it, paint and replace the radiators (for this we have to wait till the central heating of the building is switched off, either beginning of May or more probably mid-May). A new electrician will be coming next week, but friends assured me he is good.
The necessatiy to do the floor and the time required for that makes the completition date quite fixed, with approx. 4 weeks to go. It might get a bit tight, but I'm still hopeful it is doable.

The kitchen and bathroom are scheduled for renovation but at a later date. It should be no problem to make for safe wiring in the kitchen now as they are just behind the cabinets and there is full access to the point where the cables enter the kitchen (the refrigerator is 1m80 high and in a corner: removing it gives full access without the need to destroy (much).
The bathroom may be different, in which case it would need a new ceiling.

[VJ]

something went wrong at the post appeared twice...

[VJ]

I'm beginning to fear the date might be pushed back: to everybody's surprise; it snowed here yesterday. For sure this will imply the heating will be kept on longer, preventing me to change the radiators.

Still wondering about the TV in the bedroom: yesterday I had the idea of getting 2 of those:

http://www.vogels.com/web/Thuis/Producten/Product/EFA8835-COLUMN-64CMSUPPORTC.htm

One could go below the TV; the other could go on another wall and could hold the computers. Cables could be well hidden: in the columns and behind the plinths.
But on the other hand: I can put the cables in the wall now and do without this. If I get a socket, cable and UTP on the place where the television will go; and add an HDMI cable (perhaps another one) that connects to the place where I can put the computer, I don't need those things at all... And if in time I need more (or different) cables, I could still opt for this option...

The number of UTP connections is increasing though... But that should not be much of an issue.


Jörg

[Chucky Cheese]

Weather

We are having "unseasonably cold" weather here also...as I type it is 39 degrees and I had to turn my furnace back on.

[VJ]

The new electrician came... and I immediately had a much better feeling. Sometimes in small details: where the previous electrician was surprised I wanted to change the Gx5.3 220V light sockets because I cannot find the lights, this guy immediately says they need to go because it is old and no longer used. He quickly looked at the wiring, and basically said that it has to be replaced. Which is the only conclusion to which you can come. In the kitchen, he joked that magiciens must have made the previous wiring: doing it like that and it works?!
He also mentioned that he always puts UTP cable also for telephone, as it gives more freedom later. He thinks it might be possible without too much damage, but it will depend on the construction of some things (so they will have to see as the go along). He also commented on the lights in the living room: no self-respecting electrician would put so many lights in one room.

To avoid communications issues, he asked me to draw a detailed plan with socket positions, switches, ... Can you recommend any software for that ?

Either way, I feel much more comfortable with this guy... So that is good.

[Chucky Cheese]

Software?

I haven't looked for any software that does that recently. I did mine by hand with my old drafting tools that I bought while getting my degree in mechanical engineering. Even though I can use AutoCAD I prefer to manually layout my plans(..I'm old school in this way)...sorry.

I think given the size of your flat, I would just sketch it and solve wire routing problems individually as they require it...using old wire to pull new new wire and a stringer for future pulls. As a simple matter you could use sheets of paper taped to the wall with annotated text as to what you want in that position(..where you put the paper) or different colored masking tape to the wall where each color represents what you want there(red=A/C, blue=eth0, green=video(RG6) and brown=phone)...if you can't find tape in those colors use standard masking tape and color it with magic markers then give your electrician a legend of what the colors mean.

I think this methodology would serve you and your electrician better because of its' simplicity plus you won't have to buy or go through any learning curve getting the software to do what you want it to do.

[VJ]

I don't have to worry about the wire routing, just have to tell them what I want to have where. Using the old wire to pull the new one is not an option, as the old one is fixed in the wall and routed in very impossible ways (we will want different and more logical routes anyway).
Basically, they will just cut in the walls where the new wires will come.

To my surprise, he recommended against putting the wires in tubes (which I though was standard practise). He says that in older buildings doing this often gives rise to more drawbacks than benefits. I will check again, as I'm unsure of his explanation.

I discovered that Visio has functionality to draw floorplans and electrical stuff. Not sure if I will draw the electricity stuff with it, but for sure the floorplans (and then print it a couple of times to work on). The danger of hanging notes is that they may fall off or so...

[degrub]

using conduit is much more expensive than laying wire in. In the US we run wires through the wood studs and protect them with a metal plate on the stud to prevent nails from people hanging things on the wall.
Just give him a drawing for each room showing location and elevation of outlets, switches, data ports etc. Indicate number of each at the location. He should be able to give you a good safety ground, if that is code for there. It should come all the way from the master breaker/fuse box which is then connected to earth.
Make sure if there are any circuits that you want dedicated or have a single purpose large load ( refrigerator , washer/dryer, etc.) that you label them as such so he knows what the size of wire should be.

[VJ]

Yes, that is what we are currently doing... I have the full plan, and I think I have everything, but I keep wondering if I'm not forgetting things or should add more things. The good thing is that I'm living in the apartment, so you have a feeling of what you need and where. I am adding more lights, foreseeing a circuit for airco and for induction cooking plates, and multiple circuits for kitchen and laundry place.

The kitchen itself will be renovated next year, so for there we will only have the cables for different circuits enter at one specific point. And then it will just be a simple installation from there on (kitchen now does not contain much appliances).

To connect the TV in the bedroom, I have decided to use UTP cables (and hdmi over Cat5/6 converters). The first argument is that it can evolve with upcoming hdmi standards. The second argument is flexibility: I'll also add UTP cables for this purpose in the living room (to connect to the projector) but will route all of those also to where my network switch will be. There I can patch them there directly (not using the switch for those). By doing it this way, I have full freedom on what to connect (e.g. connect the TV in the bedroom through hdmi with something in the livingroom), just by repatching it.

Now just to go over the plans with the electrician...


Jörg