Am I confused?

[Gurm]

Several times in the past few days I have seen someone moaning about how expensive stuff (computer stuff) is in various non-US countries (South America, Australia, Belgium, or what have you).

I've always found this irritating, and I'm wondering if I'm completely confused about the concept of international shipping.

Let's say you want a shiny new Matrox G6500. Now let's further assume that said Matrox G6500 costs $200 in the USA and $500 in Australia (I've seen silly numbers like these thrown around, so I'm not just making this up from nowhere).

Now, I guarantee that shortly after the G6500 ships, Australians (I'm just picking Australia at random folks, nothing personal) will come on here whining about how it costs soooooo much over there and they have to wait 6 months for the release anyhow.

Why not:

1. Go to pricewatch and find a US company with G6500's in stock.
2. Buy it with your Visa or Mastercard.
3. Have them ship it to you.

Worldwide Expedited shipping via UPS of your average computer-related package to Australia is around $50. Maybe a bit less, maybe a bit more.

That brings your total cost for your shiny new G6500 to $250. That's a lot less than $500.

Now before you start in with the "customs, etc. etc. etc." I feel obliged to point out that UPS does "expedited" shipping, which means that THEY handle customs for you. It just shows up on your doorstep in a couple weeks.

Even assuming a MASSIVE sales tax of 20%, the card is still under $300.

So what am I not understanding? Or has nobody else heard of international shipping?

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Greebe]

Jason, import fees may weigh greatly on this also.

[Taz]

That's great but what do you do if it goes wrong ship it all the way back to the States! Another problem is with software licenses, generally software sold in the US or Canada can only, legally, be used in those countries. Now if it was significantly cheaper it would probably be enough to outway those two issues.

[paulcs]

I was under the impression that Matrox products were particularly expensive in Australia. Didn't Agent31 buy a GeForce because the G400 was so expensive in Australia?

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[Gurm]

Import fees on a single unit? Last time I checked, you can make a purchase of a single unit without incurring these.

And yes, returns become a problem. But when you're talking about a lag of 6 months and double the price...

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Jorden]

There's also the credit card you so handily flash onto your cybernetic counter, Jason. Most of us don't have a credit card. Coupled to that, most of the persons you see whining about the expense of the hardware are youngsters, living at home, no job, going to school etc. Do you see them wearing a tux and flashing their Visa card when they go to Mickey D for their burgers and fries?

I earn a good salary, but I don't have a Visa card either. Most of the stupid money goes up on groceries, flat rent, gas, water, electricity and the phone bill (all that internetting costing me lots, and no view yet on ADSL, MxStream, Cable or whatyamacallit )

Then again, I'm happy with what I have. I love my girlfriend. We are alive, what more do we want?

Jord.

[Himself]

Shipping at $30 US is jus the top of the cake, once it crosses borders then things like duties and brokerage fees (another $20)come into effect. Especially stupid companies that insist on UPS, UPS is notorious for brokerage fees, they only ship to the border then they sell the package to other companies who charge the end user for shipping again. I think it should be illegal. If it were not for free trade, and no duties on most things, I'd never buy anything from the US. What's annoying is that regular USPS air to Canada from the US is only $10 and no brokerage fees involved, but most companies refuse to use it, even if you explain the situation to them. There is no way for instance I'm paying more for shipping and brokerage fees than the item I want to buy. I wanted to pick up a dongle for a pair of 3D glasses for $30 US, they wanted $30 for shipping, that's insane. It's not like packages actually get here any quicker.

[DentyCracker]

That's what I do Gurm, I have no choice

[Ali]

Well, Im in this boat, I live just down from Australia.

Say Im buying something over the net. Thats ok, and I only get landed with shipping and GST (12.5%) on top of that, providing the origional purchase price is under NZ$300 (about US$125 or so).

If the goods are over NZ$300 before GST and shipping and insurance etc, then I can still import it as a personal inport, but I get landed with another 20% import tax, and Im only alowed to do this 3 times a year.

So say I want that G6500 for US$200, that comes to NZ$500ish, so I get landed 20% tax. Thats now $600, plus GST= $675 plus shipping, say $700 and insurance on top of that =$720.

So I have my brand new G6500 for NZ$720 and I have no warranty. This card is only covered if used in the northen hemisphere. I might be able to get a RMA from Matrox itself, but I cant return it to the people I purchased it from.

Now there are ways around this. I buy all my hard to get stuff from the states and have it shipped to my Aunt who lives in Seattle. She then sends it over to me labled 'spare parts' and I dont pay GST or import tax. I still have the problem of shipping, insurance, and warranty though.

Not counting the cost, its a pain waiting for your new toy to arrive. I could go down to the local computershop and get a Geforce 256 2 days later than you could in america. It took about 3 months for the G200s to get here after the north american launch. The G400s were even worse (although I got one nice and early off a guy who works at one of NZs biggest computer importers/OEMs).

I dont mean to lecture, but importing isnt as easy as most people think, and most of the laws/regulations are stacked against you.


Ali

[Gurm]

Jorden,

No credit, no debit, no nothing? My GOD, man - do you pay cash for everything? Sorry, it's just that in the US, cheques are no longer accepted at many locations. Everyone has a debit card (credit card linked to your bank account). Even poor students. Heh. It's just how things work here.

I honestly hadn't considered that people in other countries DON'T have plastic. Buying things over the phone must be terribly difficult for you... ?

See, Himself told me what I wanted to know - there ARE hidden costs. I was just curious. Last time I called UPS, to ship a personal package, there were no hidden costs. I guess it must work differently if you use a middle-man.

Of course, you could make friends with someone in the USA (such as yours truly), and get them to ship you the item... no duties or fees.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Himself]

I use a bank card for a lot of things, buying groceries, local stores, etc, I pay my bills online where applicable. I generally buy online within Canada, that means I can get things sent COD.

I've never really needed a credit card so I don't have one either. I don't like the temptation for impulse buying it gives you. I also like to buy things when I have the extra cash, not before, I have enough bills and debts, thank you. If I had a credit card I would have serious doubts about using it online, I'd call voice instead. Of course if I am doing that I can arrange something else anyway and avoid credit card surcharges.

I've had no problem with prepaying the odd time I order something in from the states, they are generally pretty good when it comes to offering to send them money. It's just trying to explain the extremely complicated and foreign concept of brokerage fees to some people who I'm sure never got past grade 5 level education that's the problem. "But UPS is really cheap, why wouldn't you want to use it, it's cheaper than USPS?" Smack!

[HollyBerri]

Gurm, you know I love you (thanks for the offer, kisses to your wife, and congratulations!!), but I've just gotta say it...

....Americans! (sigh).

Not that I knew any better before I met Jord, but the rest of the world really handles things differently.

We, for instance, have never received or sent a check as we would in the US. Jord's salary is directly deposited into his giro account. The rent is automatically debited from that account, as are the utilities-- all Jord does is authorize the gas debit by sending back the detachable part of the bill. The giro card is similar to a debit card, but since he doesn't make a weekly/biweekly/monthly trip to a bank/check cashing to receive cash money, "keeping the books" isn't fraught with quite so much peril of 'forgetting' that couple hundred cash you or I might have stuffed under the mattress.

So yeah, we pay "cash" (via the giro card) for everything. Probably if we called Tel-Sell for the same kind of infomercial products you see there, we could give them our giro number and have it debited (though I expect they'd take the credit card if we had one). Citibank and Chase Manhattan don't have the same power of life-and-death here, so credit cards are not nearly so prevalent in places not populated by tourists ( ).

You're also forgetting currency conversion.[list=1][*] Many online facilities are unable to accept/convert foreign currency-- and many also won't/can't ship to Europe (not even thinking about other places). I know; I spent a lot of time trying to find an online petfood vendor who I'd be able to order from when I got here (I was worried about what my cat would eat here).[*] Currency rates fluctuate, which means that it may not be cheaper at all times to buy from the US. I had to go to the Consulate in Amsterdam to get a form, and the cost was $55USD. They told me how much it was in guilders as well.

Well, I understand $55, but Jord immediately went to the post-office (after calling them to be sure that they had 55 US dollars there, and asking them to hold it for him (!!!), because at that moment the dollar was rising, and on the day that I went, it might have cost me 25 or 30 guilders more than on the day he bought the US money. And here it's relatively easy to buy US money (and relatively low service fees to convert it), but I'm sure it's not so simple in many countries represented on this forum.
[*] Power and standards. Here in Holland, we're on 220 volts. Most US electronics are not able to accept this. That's not a problem with PC parts, of course, but suppose you want a G400 TV? Europe uses a different TV standard than the US (both the transmission format and the connectors), and few US stores are going to sell the European version. Maybe one has to wait for the release of one's localized version.
[*] Speaking of localization, suppose you don't want/will have a lot of trouble reading your manual if it's in English?[/list=a]

I'm sure there's more, but others can handle it. All I mean to say is "just buy it in the US" is not as simple as people in the US tend to think, even in Western Europe. Jord is still trying to find out how my aunt can send us money for Christmas (she wants to, we would prefer she didn't), when in the US she could just stuff a check, or cash in the Christmas card.

The US is unique-- still using Farenheight, pounds, ounces, feet and inches, and I can't even tell how tall I am anymore. But because it's so big and powerful, residents tend to think that everywhere else is just the same, in a different language.

It's not. It really is <u>not</u>. It's the whole rest of the world, and it does things in a whole different way.

I hope you know I'm not getting on you personally, Gurm-- I had a typical "American attitude" before I left the country too. Of course I did. Americans don't travel much, don't speak other languages much (unless it's part of their heritage), and aren't very knowledgeable generally about other cultures.

So it's good you asked, but I must say, such ignorance on our parts looks awful silly, sad and wasteful when seen from outside....

------------------------
Holly

[Gurm]

Thank you, Holly, for the abundance of information!

I try not to be totally "American" in my attitudes, but I think my original point was borne out, with caveats:

There is "a solution" which involves buying from the US if necessary. What I have learned through this increasingly lengthy thread is that it isn't quite as simple as I might have otherwise thought.

So it is apparently "preferable" to buy locally. That's even true in the US - I'd rather buy from the guys down the street (and pay more) than order away from some nameless faceless company. And California might as well be a different country (no offense intended to you weirdos from California...).

Well, I've gotten my edumacation on the whole internation finance aspect of things. Now to solve world hunger! I say we airdrop grain over most of Africa with modified cropdusting equipment! Who's with me?

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Admiral]

I'll leave the credit card argument out (not many people here have one, so it's not just "parasites" like me).

Do you think it's fair that in a country where wages are about 20 or 30 times lower than in US, prices are up to 30% higher (or more) ?

[paulcs]

No, it's not fair, Andrei. But the problem as I see it is not UPS. It's the protectionist tariffs most European nations add on to the price of foreign goods.

Maybe it's time for a tax revolt.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net