There goes 3dfx...

[isochar]

Some thoughts:
-matrox and ati cannot count on nvidia screwing up. if that's how they plan on beating nvidia, then they have already lost.
-nvidia WILL deliver with the 3dfx/gigapixel technology
-even if moore's law doesn't uphold, nvidia will still be able to release graphics cards at this pace for the next few years
-nvidia is only buying 3dfx's core assets. so this purchase doesn't technically eliminate 3dfx (in reality it does though), this method just guarantees that the FTC will approve
-nvidia CAN make multi-chip designs now without losing much face. all they have to say is "after analyzing 3dfx's SLI technology, we have concluded that combining it with nvidia technology should give the most value to consumers"
-nvidia is not only selling high-end video cars. they are following their mission statement: they will have an nvidia chip in every computer that has to display an image.
-matrox and ati cannot rely on their business markets. nvidia will OWN the gamers market by the next product cycle. the gamer's market is a foretelling of things to come... this is where the "new" technology is tested - then passed down to corporations. give nvidia another year and they'll be stealing huge market share (and profit) from those business segments.
-nvidia already has graphics card prices where they want them to. at the price point where they make the most money. (lose some customers, but the extra money that purchasing customers have to pay makes up for it)
-this is great news for all us matrox fans! this 3dfx acquisition should've kicked matrox and ati in the butt. the g800 needs to be released ASAP. if not, matrox might as well forget about the gaming market... they'll have too small a presence.
-matrox and ati are sorely mistaken if they think that hiding in their lucrative business markets will save them. they will have to beat nvidia at it's own game.
-software designer's will be designing/testing their games with nvidia in mind. if they make a game focused on max stability/performance for an nvidia chipset, then they are addressing a majority of the gaming community

[Himself]

NVIDIA is also in a good position to strongly influence APIs in their favour, MS is dependent on them for the XBox, now 3DFX is no longer a dissenting opinion at the table. There could be a strong threat that NVIDIA will set the standards. Along with all the IP they now have, it may be near impossible for other companies to compete.

I agree that Matrox and ATi will have to get their ass in gear or be buried in ever distant competitive targets.

[Dogbert]

If matrox would have bought 3dfx things would have been so much simpler...

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I like to con people, but I also like to insult them. What if I could combine the two, I would call it - Consult !

[dZeus]

who says they can't acquire their engineers? Seems a smart move to me

[Wombat]

Fine, Matrox can still get the engineers, but they can't talk about their past projects. That would be illegal and could harm nVidia. Oh, wait....that's that nVidia is doing to Matrox.

[Dogbert]

Actually they won't have to talk/mention any of their previous projects. All they'll have to do is join the Engeneering staff at matrox and contribute from their knowledge.
That'll be more than enough.

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I like to con people, but I also like to insult them. What if I could combine the two, I would call it - Consult !

[isochar]

Place yourself in the 3dfx engineers' shoes for a second...

you think they want to go to Matrox and possibly risk losing their job again in a few years?

or

go to nvidia, get a secure job (at this point), work in a company that is on the forefront of graphics technology, probably get a nice salary, and get the chance to purchase stock options?

hmmm....
I really believe that nVidia has the almost everything going in their favor (not just in acquiring new talent). Matrox/ATI will be hard pressed to push the king off of the hill. Still, anything can happen in this wonderful industry (G800 with a terabyte of memory bandwidth anyone ?? )

[This message has been edited by isochar (edited 17 December 2000).]

[Rags]

King of the hill?

What hill? Market share? Gamer's hearts?

Also, why do you think M's future looks bleak? I am interested to know.

Rags

[superfly]

Not to mention freezing their nuts off when winter time comes around(brrrrrrr....... ).

Then there's also the question that the candian dollar is fairly weak compared to the us dollar(1$ canadian = 0.60$ us).

Then there's the higher taxes that we pay,that sometimes reaches up 30% more that in the us,but we do have free medicare because of it,unlike in the us,where you better be insured if you want good quality health care.

Did i mention that NVIDIA is HQ'd in sunny california,where it's summer all year round(ummmmm...warm.. ).

[Himself]

NVIDIA is kill of the hill in terms of rate of growth, they are getting bigger and bigger. Now, they can only expand so far without squeezing out somebody else, you know ATi has a product to use to compete, all you can look to from Matrox is dual head, since it's better than the other guy's version of it, but for how long will that be the case?

[isochar]

Right on, himself. Don't forget that it's not just future growth that makes them king of the hill, but's it's stuff like this: <A HREF="http://www.hoovers.com/cgi-bin/offsite?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews%2Ecnet%2Ecom%2Fnews% 2F0%2D1006%2D200%2D3238075%2Ehtml%3Ftag%3Dst%2Ene% 2E1430735%2E%2Eni&frames=yes&esc=yes" TARGET=_blank>http:// www.hoovers.com/cgi-bin/offsite?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews%2Ecnet%2Ecom%2Fnews% 2F0%2D1006%2D200%2D3238075%2Ehtml%3Ftag%3Dst%2Ene% 2E1430735%2E%2Eni&frames=yes&esc=yes[/url]

One interesting quote:
Since April, ATI has been promoting Radeon as its answer to Nvidia's GeForce. That's a sign ATI is now the one playing catch-up, not Nvidia, Feibus added.

ATI is in a decent position. They have a majority of laptop graphics sales (for now). They have a healthy amount of business sales. (although less than nvidia now)

Matrox is in a much more questionable position. (graphics-wise) laptop sales? none. retail sales? minimal. oem sales? decent.

The OEM sales are what counts, but the retail (gaming) sector affects it. I believe that the people at Dell, Gateway, etc. who make the decisions are geeks. A majority of these geeks right now have nvidia in their computers, they are bound to make that same recommendation to their OEM.

Afterwards, its the price at which the graphics maker can supply the OEM. Nvidia has tops there too. By outsourcing all their production they are able to keep the costs down.

If Matrox doesn't produce something that is highly competitive, I believe they'll become a niche player. As a niche player, they will become unprofitable, or sell-out to a bigger graphics maker. So, the only way for them to survive is to remain big - keep market share. Only chance for them to keep market share is to play the game like nvidia has...

[This message has been edited by isochar (edited 18 December 2000).]

[alessandro]

So this means that Matrox has to launch the G800 as soon as tomorrow!!!!!

[Novdid]

I hope Matrox will release something soon...or they will fade away like 3dfx.

[paulcs]

Hmmm. I think Matrox does pretty well in the retail market. I suspect Matrox would sell a lot more if they could get product on the shelves sooner. There's a local computer retailer here in San Francisco. They also have stores in Satan Clara down the Peninsula and in Newark across the Bay. They're selling the OEM version of the 32MB G450 for $160.00.

That's more than I'd expect to pay for the retail board, so demand must be very high here in NVIDIA's backyard (and in the case of the Santa Clara, their front yard).

Maybe it's the "snob-factor," but Matrox products are extremely popular here. Local merchants have seem to have problems keeping boxed products on the shelves.

No slight on NVIDIA intended. Their boards sell brisky here too, and I own several myself. While I'm not exactly doing cartwheels over the G450, I'm not sure it was an act of desperation or a bad decision. And this thread isn't about the famous 2D company going belly up.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[isochar]

I completely agree. It'll definately be some time before Matrox goes belly up. All I'm stating is that they better start whipping their operation into shape or face the consequences.