Getting ready to build new PC for my office...suggestions?

[Kruzin]

I will be building a PC for my own use in the office. The machine will be used for 2D AutoCAD, and will never see any gaming action, but I want to build a machine that will last a couple of years at least, so I am looking at 733MHz or higher.

Only 2 things are set in stone at this point...

1)I will be using my G450 in it.
2)The boss wants Intel, not AMD for the processor.

Other than these items, I have the freedom to choose the parts I want, and to build the machine myself.

What components do you folks suggest?
Mobo/proc?
HDDs?
NIC?
CD/DVD/Burner (would like a combo of all in 1 drive)
Monitor (19" or bigger...will carry over one of my 17" for the secondary display)

I have a couple of weeks to decide what I want to get, so there is no rush here...I want to build the best machine I can...

[dZeus]

If you're going the Intel route, I would opt for a motherboard based on either the Intel BX chipset, or the i815EP chipset.

BX Pro's:
- Fastest memory performance
- Fastest PCI bus performance
- no motherboard drivers that need to be installed, no compatibility issues with ANY card

i815EP Pro's:
- Support for AGP 4x and UDMA/66 (AGP 4x doesn't really have any real world benefit, UDMA/66 is questionable except with the absolute fastest IDE HDD currently available)
- Support for a 1/2 AGP multiplyer, letting you run the G450 on a non-overclocked AGP bus when you have a CPU with a 133MHz FSB (or when overclocking to a 133MHz FSB).

Personally I would try to find a Asus P3B-F, since it is the best BX motherboard ever produced

HDD: Quantum Fireball LM Plus 30 or 40GB: really fast, SCSI HDD are not worth the extra costs for the speed advantage they have over these IDE HDD.

NIC: 3Com 3c905B-TX or 3c905C-TX. The c-tx has a on-die in boot-rom, causing significantly longer boot time, but also has some other optimizations (I don't think there is much performance difference between the 2 chips)

CD/DVD/Burner: Go for either a complete SCSI setup or a complete IDE setup.

IDE:
CDROM/BURNER: Plextor 12x10x32 or similar drive
DVDROM: Pioneer 16x DVD, Toshiba DVD or ASUS DVD

SCSI:
Adaptec 2940U or 2940UW (faster would only benefit HDD which are incredibly expensive anyway)
CDROM/BURNER: Plextor 12x10x32 SCSI
DVD: Pioneer 305
Monitor: get exactly the same monitor as your current 17".... that way you minimize the change of frustration of difference of color/sharpness/saturation/brightness/contrast, etc. between the 2 displays.... nothing works better than a dualhead desktop with 2 exactly the same displays... try for yourself by using 2 different monitor for some time, even if they're the same size... it drives me nuts

[DuRaNgO]

As for the processor:

Your boss most likely doesn't want to o/c so I'd go for the 800 running @ 133 as this seems to be a good price/performance right now $200=/-

As for the mobo:

The Soyo 7vca-2 has all the goodies:
ATA-100
4x agp
pc-133 support
good onboard audio which should be fine for its intended use
this is the info page
$130=/-
jim

[Kruzin]

Thanks for the replies so far.

You're right Durango...there will be NO overclocking on this machine. Everything must be running within specs if I want the boss to let me build it myself (this took some convincing, as every other machine he owns was built by the same local store, and even though I was once tech manager at that very store, and advised him not to buy anything from them ever again, he still buys most of his stuff there).

I am going to be on somewhat of a budget, so I will most likely be going IDE (unless he OKs that extra thousand bucks I want to spend). For the purpose of this thread, I'd rule out any SCSI stuff.

I really want a combo CD-RW/DVD. I have separate CD-R/DVD at home, and this has not proven to work very well for me, as they share an IDE channel, and have often conflicted with each other in the past. I forsee the same thing happening with the new machine, as I plan to put twin hard drives in it, run Win2K, and mirror the drives (my machine contains almost all of the companies CAD files, and really needs a better backup system than we use now...a 250meg zip I have to access through the LAN). With twin drives, the 1st IDE channel will be full, so any DVD/CD-RW would need to share the second IDE.

[DuRaNgO]

Ricoh has a great "All-in-one" unit HERE

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Combination CD-R/RW and DVD Player (ROM) in one drive.


Featuring Ricoh New buffer underrun error prevention technology "JustLink".


12X Writing (CDR), 10X Writing (CD-RW), 32X max Reading (CD-R/RW,CD-ROM) and 8X Reading (DVD-ROM).


High speed 100 mesc average access time for comfortable operation.


Fast Digital Audio Extraction (DAE) at 32x (Max.).Digital audio data can be extracted at 32x (Max.)(DAE).WAV file creation is also high speed.


The newly developed wobble detection system for writing has been adopted, given even greater writing reliability.


Equipped with *S/PDIF terminals, the MP7120A is capable of outputting digital audio data.


Advanced dust proofing by improved door shaped and shielding.

* A separated soundcard with S/PIDF input and a special-purpose cable are required to use the S/PIDF terminal.

Just Link is a new technology developed independently by Ricoh that automatically prevents buffer underrun errors by predicting them before they happen.
</font>

$280=/-
jim

[This message has been edited by DuRaNgO (edited 19 January 2001).]

[paulcs]

Is cost so much of an issue that you have to skimp on the CPU? I think the price of the 1 GHz unit is too high, but the PIII 933 is pretty reasonable these days. The PIII 866 looks like a pretty good deal as well. Most office and content creation applications like a fast CPU. Memory performance for applications isn't quite as important as it is for gaming.

I'm concerned about the G450 and the i815 series 64MB AGP aperture limit. You might want to talk to Haig about this.

Hard drive reliability is probably the greatest concern for the business user. I'm a big fan of IBM's Deskstar 75GXP series. They run cool and fast, and they're quiet too.

Here's a no nonsense review from StorageReview.com:

http://www.storagereview.com/map/lm.cgi/DTLA-307045

With a i815EP board, I'd make sure I used single sided RAM as it provides a bit more flexibility. Crucial's 7E stuff is very compatible, very cheap, and now comes in the single-side form factor. I'm not entirely sure about this -- I just noticed it the other day -- but I think the following is true:

CT16M64S4D7E.8T (SINGLE-SIDED)

CT16M64S4D7E.16T (DOUBLE-SIDED)

I like 3Com NIC's.

I think CD-RW's should be the business backup devices of choice. I also think Plextor's new CD-RW's are the best hardware devices I've ever seen. Burn-Proof technology works seems to work better than Plextor claims. The IDE PX-W1210TA is a really great drive. It's SCSI counterpart is fast as hell!! It's a little pricey, however, and I wouldn't buy a SCSI card for one device.

If he needs a DVD ROM, the Pioneer DVD-115 is a very nice drive.

I know this isn't on your list, but I bet your boss could live with an Ensoniq soundcard for 25 bucks.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[This message has been edited by paulcs (edited 19 January 2001).]

[Sir Hitech]

Can your budget afford dual PIII's with 512mb ram? I recently built two dual 1gh workstations with 1GB ram for an architect and they are PERFECT for doing CAD. I am building myself a dual 850 with 512mb ram IDE RAID with a pair of IBM 45GB HD's to do Photoshop and LightWave works. I intend to overclock it to beyond 1GH, however.

MSI 694D Pro-AR mb's w/ IDE Raid is what I use for the 1GH workstations. I am putting the dual 850's in an Abit VP6 w/ IDE Raid for better overclockability.

[paulcs]

Sir Hitech, I'm wondering about what you think about that MSI Dual CPU board. Could you elaborate a bit?

MSI seems to have the non-Intel chipset down stability-wise. Did you have any problems getting it up and running? Has it been rock solid? Any compatibility issues? Etc.

Thanks.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[Greebe]

Ken, is this the boss behind or beside you?

[Brian R.]

G450 runs fine in my 815 mb (CUSL2)

[Rags]

G450 is a winner in my CUSL2-C running win2k.

Rags

[SteveC]

That Ricoh combo drive is great! Used a couple of them - no probs.

Mainboard - we use the Soltek range at work now and are rather impressed with their stability. But I'd prolly still choose an Asus.

Processor - your choice depends on what moeny's available.

HDD - I still cannot stand Quantums. I'd say it's got to be an IBM 7200 RPM IDE Drive

Case - Any old case with an AMD approved PSU (I know you're not running an Athlon, but an AMD approved PSU gives me a bit more reassurance of quality)

Network card - I have to agree with the 3com gang. Just nothing with the name Realtek anywhere on the card.

Monitor - An NEC 18" LCD would be nice But I'd say you can't go wrong with an Iiyama.

------------------
Cheers,
Steve

"Life is what we make of it, yet most of us just fake"

[SteveC]

PS: Everyone, Read Kruzin's first sentence:

I will be building a PC for my own use in the office

The PC is for HIM not his boss!

------------------
Cheers,
Steve

"Life is what we make of it, yet most of us just fake"

[Sir Hitech]

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">Originally posted by paulcs:
Sir Hitech, I'm wondering about what you think about that MSI Dual CPU board. Could you elaborate a bit?

MSI seems to have the non-Intel chipset down stability-wise. Did you have any problems getting it up and running? Has it been rock solid? Any compatibility issues? Etc.
</font>

Paul:

I agree with you on MSI mb's being the more stable Athlon/Duron mb's on
the market. I have built most of my Athlon/Duron systems with MSI mb's and
they have served me and my clients well. Because of my good experience
with MSI, I've decided to use MSI 694D Pro-AR for the dual PIII systems
and they are as rock solid with no exception. These two workstations have
been powered-up for a month and my client have thrown every imaginable CAD
/ Graphic software on them and they just keep crunching without a single
crush. The Dell Precision they bought for $10K a month earlier is now being used by the accounting department. The president of the architecture firm was so impressed with them,
he asked me to build 6 more for his other regional offices and one for himself over the next two months.. Lets do the math:


Hitech built - $6K (Loaded, G450 with dual KDS AV-195TF 19inch monitors, 45gb + 90gbRAID IBM hd's, 1GB SDRAM, CDR, spare tire, 1000hp 32valve Turbo V8 engine, 1yr bumper-to-bumper warranty, free oil change for 6 months.. ahumm sorry )
Dell Precision - $10K (I didnt ask..)

The installation was pretty straight forward. Bolt down the screws, plug in the cards, connect the cables and install all the drivers and you are done. Like most SMP boards, the 694D is quite large, I had to move the 3 1/2 drive cage from ANTEC full tower outta the way to sink the board down. The area around the cpus are quite spacious so intalling the FOP32's was a cinch, all the connectors and jumpers are in the clear, the bios is almost as nice as Abit's except the overclock settings are not as numerous. As far as compatibility goes, I didn't notice any. One thing I've learned from building all these pc's is that before you install any program, find and install all the latest OFFICIAL hardware firmware and drivers first. A lot of incompatibility problems are cause by wrong drivers not hardware itself.

My VP6 and Dual PIII 850's will be in my workshop next week. All the previous Abit boards I've used has been quite stable but not to the degree of MSI's. A lot of people dislike the boards with VIA chipsets because of traditioinally poor memory bandwidth and poor drivers, but thats changing fast. Lost a couple of frames per second is unthinkable for some people, but not for me! The Dual FCPA PIII boards can be have for $160 and cpu and memory prices are dropping like rocks, Owning a SMP machine is no longer just for the big businesses and rich brats on your block. IF you are going to build a low maintanence and long lasting system with nice performance, MSI should be very high on your list.

[Beezer]

Why do you need a DVD at work?