Matrox about to be lapped by Nvidia

[Buuri]

It will be out soon. I believe that the original target was by Christmas, but they want to make sure that the shelves are full when it comes out.

Also Sony will be hoping that the PSX has at least a 3year life span, can you imagin the advancments in PC gaming during that time.

So are you saying that PSX2 would be better now if the expected lifespan wouldn't be that long? PSX2 would be better machine if you would know that PSX3 is coming out in few months?
If PSX2 beats all the PC front can offer, it still is no good while something better for PC's is out in 6-12 months anyway?

Please explain.

_
B

[This message has been edited by Buuri (edited 09-14-1999).]

[Firespray]

This is to Jimmy really about Matrox being in the VGA business for so long, all i can say is look at Herculeas they were in the business from the start had many good products and now they are gone just shows you that a good product by itself is sometimes not enough if you cant distribute your products to get that much needed capital back into your company

Firespray

[Jimmy]

You're completely right FireSpray.Another example is Number 9 wich use 128bit chips before others discovered 64bit{I think it was a long time ago}.Today Number 9 doesn't exist althoug they use WRAM and quality hardware.I'm not trying to defend Matrox's inability(?) to ship the MAX.Damn I live in Greece and till about a month and less noone knew about the G400,not even the standard edition.I'm also not trying to defend the PSX II and I dont care what HardWare it incorporates.I'M JUST TRYING TO SAY that the 3D hardware doesnt't make a VGA great,not by itself.QUALITY is an issue as well.And Matrox has the best quality U can find in its class.It always had but now it also has a very good(Not perfect maybe} 3D accel capacity which makes it better than any nvidia product released now or in the NEAR future though it will score less fps.C YA

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-=Jimmy=-

[SteveC]

Anyway, the original Mystique -170 was the first proper 3D card... I'll never forget kicking up Mechwarrior2 on that baby for the first time...

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Cheers,
Steve

PS: Some or all of the above message may be wrong, or, just as likely, correct. Depends on what mood I'm in. And what you know. ;¬)

[[Pige]]

Burrie: The reason the PC is the platform of the future is that developers will not be restrited to a set technology. The PC is always developing, where as the PSX2 will stay static for the next 3 years. This is not a faliure of the PSX2 alone but the faliure of all consols.

The only advantage the PSX2/console has over the PC is speed and graphical quality. The PSX2 from what I have read will not be out untill next summer (a whole 6 months away) by this time PC's will be able to compete at the same level..... by Christmas 2000 the PC will wipe the floor with the PSX2, by Christmas 20001 the PSX2 will be the equivilant of a magadrive compared to a PC, by Christmas 20002 they may have released details of the up and coming PSX3 but by this time the PSX2 will have been forgotten by all but a few die hards.....

.... and the PC will rule !!!!

Pige

[siming]

Well, here in Singapore, I could have bought a CL TNT2 Ultra for the same price that I got my G400 32MB DH OEM for, but I have this serious thing against Nvidia after trying out their Edge 3D 2000 (wonderful card wasn't it...a ISA card could outperform it..i'm serious!!!) and I'm glued to Matrox after using their Millenium. So no matter what Nvidia comes out with, I'm definitely NOT getting it.
And why does everyone benchmark Quake II in 1280x1024 resolution when nobody plays it in anything more than 800x600? I'm getting about 5600 in 3DMark 99 on my o/ced G400 which is pretty good I think...

Specs: Intel PIII 560 MHz (4.5x112)<-this rocks! (so it's not the most overdriven P3 but it's good enough for me)
MSI 6163
128MB
IBM Deskstar 22GXP 9.1GB 7.2K 2MB buffer

[Hunsow]

Hmmm, 4.5x112=504

[LAMFDTK]

Its quite clear that Matrox has a buisness plan that is set not to compete with Nvidia and 3dfx etc. on the retail side. So get over it ! This thread is a good one (except for a few stupid posts). Matrox is doing what THEY feel is the best way they can compete. Its hard to imagine the on-line store is adding revenue to the bottom line. There is a business plan here and the Matrox suits know whats happening. They know EXACTLY whats happening. I would venture to say that this is a critical time for Matrox. Is the retail the best place to put your resources? Or is the OEM market the focus? I think it is clear what Matrox is doing in their buisness plan. OEM.

[[Pige]]

"nobody plays in anything but 800x600"......
....hmmmmmmmm

didn't know people still used 14" monitors, when your a big boy and saved up all you pocket money, perhapes you'll think of up grading it.

Pige

[jhalada]

LAMFDTK,

Its quite clear that Matrox has a buisness plan that is set not to compete with Nvidia and 3dfx etc. on the retail side.

If that's the case, then Matrox will be retreating from a significant portion of the market. Most retail stores and many on-line stores don't stock any OEM products.

Also, retail adds to visibility. It's kind of like advertising, but instead of spending money, you make money.

Joe

[Mike Zamarocy]

Also, on the old "LIST" many of us were on, it was found that OEM cards were usually crippled in some way. Either you couldn't add the memory modules, or the Rainbow Runner, or the RAMDAC was slower. Whatever it was, we had always found the OEM cards to be less than a full RETAIL card. And in some instances, the OEM cards were not supported directly - you had to go thru the manufacturer of the PC (that it was installed inside of). So I would really wonder about buying an OEM G400 anything.

[LAMFDTK]

Well if they are trying to compete its not a very good effort now is it? Yes they will make retail products but they are not being produced near the levels of other card makers. I wonder what their market share is on the retail side? 3-5% ? I don't know I'm speculating......

[This message has been edited by LAMFDTK (edited 09-14-1999).]

[jhalada]

I wonder what their market share is on the retail side? 3-5% ? I don't know I'm speculating......

I don't know what it is now, but it used to be a lot higher, back in Millenium / Mil II days.

[KvHagedorn]

It is never a good idea to get the enthusiast sector mad at you. This is us. How many of us buy our cards as part of a prepackaged system? surely fewer then 5%. How many prepackaged systems out there offer Matrox products anyway? Not many. Sony and the high end HP Kayaks are about it. Matrox is a high end product for the most part, and they need to appeal more to their true customer base. Probably more than most, their customer base for their highest end cards is tweaky people like us who assemble their own systems. Can Compaq make a Celeron box with a G400MAX in it and sell it for the magic price of $999.00? Don't think so.

Don't think the suits are always right. That's why they wear suits in the first place.. it's a psychological way to hide their own imperfections. I think this debate is pointless.. it doesn't attack the issue. Matrox supplies few enough OEMs to be able to supply us as well.. they just need to increase production. Production is the key.. get to the fast memory chips before Diamond does next time.. find someone else to make them.. whatEVER. Just do it.. figure out a way to outproduce and your product will be successful. A lot of people bought a V770U because it was the best card AVAILABLE.. by that I mean READILY available.. not something you had to wait and wait for, or do a rain dance for.. or conjure up with magic spells from the only source supplying it (the Matrox store.) You can have the best card out there (as the G400MAX is) but who cares if people can't buy one easily? How will you profit from this great new product if you can't produce mass quantities?

I frankly think the suits were caught off guard with this one. The engineers gave them an awesome product. They should have begged, borrowed and stole to produce enough of them to satisfy the demand. It's sad.. think how successful they could have been had they done this.

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Kind Regards,

KvH




[This message has been edited by KvHagedorn (edited 09-15-1999).]

[jhalada]

Don't let the engineers off so quickly. You can design a wonderful chip from design and functionality point of view.

But ability to reach higher clock speeds is part of the design. And good yield on the chips has to do with both: the design of the chip and the fab partner.

Also, Matrox intends to make money selling cards. The biggest variable may be the yield, and the speed distribution of the pchips. If they are yielding too few parts, or if only a very small percentage of the parts can reach higher clock speeds, Matrox can't just buy more wafers. They would lose money that way.

Matrox needs to fix the design, confirm that the yield is acceptable. This should be done before they declare general availability and send few cards with cherry picked chips to hardware sites for review.

Obviously, Matrox was not done in May. Instead of biting the bullet and announcing delays (at least of the MAX parts) they continued to give all these unrealistic ETAs.

The same thing with drivers. You may have a few hundred thousand of people running W2k beta, RC1 or RC2.

For most of this year, people assumed that W2k would be released in October (which happens to be anywhere between 2 weeks from now and 7 weeks from now). But there is no sign of even an alpha version of G400 drivers. Matrox just missed their chance to get there cards tested in number of different configurations by the W2k beta testers.

What do you think will be the result of this when w2k eventually ships: better driver, worse driver, or even more likely no driver at all.

Microsoft may still bail Matrox out by delaying w2k. If MSFT is late, it will basically be luck that will save Matrox from another embarassment.

Joe