This is a message torward Haig.

[Jorden]

Okay Madman,

I'm just hardheaded...

And Haig didn't threaten you, he just said "Sure you do. If a customer insists for an RMA, against tech supp's advice, he will still get it BUT RMA might charge them for no fault found. Do you want this?"

So, he just says you have to pay P&P plus charges for the checking of your card if there's nothing wrong with it.

Okay Madman, a question I'd really like an answer on: do you ever take advice from others and/or try the advice??

Jorden

[motub]

How will I know that if I sent it the card that there was nothing wrong, or if there is something wrong? Being fed up with me, of course he'll charge me. That was why I refused and stopped to talk to their tech support.

If you feel that Matrox, or any other company, is so dishonest, you should never have bought anything from them at all... You never know, when you send back a part, if something was wrong if the company says not; if you did, you'd be an engineer yourself!!! Don't quite get how dealing tech support would somehow be an improvement... if the company is so far out to screw you, you think tech support wouldn't be in on it??

But what Haig said, if you read it again, is that RMA might charge you... and that would be out of his hands!!! Because (inferred) RMA is a <u>different department, not associated with/controlled by tech support!!!!</u> D'oh!!! I'd think that RMA would be a Customer Service/Sales/Marketing dept., not tech support, though tech support must communicate with them regularly...

You know, there's no crime in being clueless.. unless you don't ask, or don't listen when answered... like you don't... Your mind works in strange and mysterious ways... maybe <u>that's</u> why you nick yourself "madman"... I never think of these things...

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Holly

[Kruzin]

sigh
(first off, I hope you are not the same Madman of the old forum server...he was a good guy, and if you are him, it's a shame to see what you have turned into.)

Too bad you lied when you said that post last night would be your last here.

"1)The problems in Windows 98 SE that I've mentioned before."
As I don't have SE, I can't comment on it, but if you search any forum, you will find many people have trouble with the SE version in general. Most pros will recommend the original 98 with all of the service upgrades over SE.

"2)Why is it that AGP 2x only runs with bus mastering disabled? Don't give me the 'it's sensitive' garbage cuz I don't buy that."
If you knew anything about AGP, how it works, and the different implimentations of it, you would understand.

First off, by disabling BusMastering, you are disabling AGP. I don't care if Sandra or PCI list says 2x. If BusMastering is disabled, side banding is disabled, thus AGP is not being used.

Next, Matrox has (since G200) used a different implimentation of AGP than anyone else in the market. Any other card you put into your system that says it is getting 2x, is getting 2x in DMA mode. Matrox uses DiME mode AGP.

So wether you beleive it or not, G400 is more sensitive to bus noise than other cards, and the AGP implimentation is the reason why.

"3)When I use a regular agp card such as the SIS 6320(?) it works fine. No crashes when reinstalling windows 98 SE and everything works without a hitch. I know that it doesn't support bus mastering but at least it runs fine."
See above. Your 6320 is using DMA mode, which is much less demanding on the bus, less sensitive to noise, and more forgiving of system RAM. Many people have found that if they can't get 2x, it is because of one of these factors. Often moving the RAM to a different slot will reduce bus noise, and help the problem. Other times, if you are running multiple DIMMS (especially mis-matched ones), bus noise is increased. There are also products out there (like the Silent Serpent for K6 chips) that specifically targets bus noise reduction.

Basic differences in AGP modes:
DMA (Direct Memory Access) = AGP texture-> video mem-> system mem-> video mem-> execute (display) texture.
DiME (Direct Memory Execute) AGP texture-> video mem-> system mem-> execute (display) texture.

As you can see, Gx00 cards cut out a full texture copy from system memory to video memory. This means a couple things...(1)It is more efficient that DMA mode, making Gx00 1x nearly as efficient as everyone elses 2x and (2)It is more sensitive to the contidions I explained above.
(why am I explaining this to you....you're such an awesome tech, you must have known this already)

I will not waste my time going back and researching your other posts...but if you have not bothered yet, try the card in a different system, or at least try different RAM in your system. If you are running multiple DIMMs, try them one at a time.

"All I try to do is get some help here"
You never asked anyone for help (at least not in a respectful way). You came in whining and moaning about your issues, but never once did you politly ask for assistance. And even when it was offered, you pissed and moaned about it. And now you're surprised that everyone thinks you're a twit? When someone goes out of their way to take the time to give you suggestions, and you just flame them for it, what else would you expect? Pull your head out of your ass (which must be especially hard to get in there, what with your foot on your mouth...you must be one hell of a contortionist), and start acting respectably, or go away. You will find that your kind of BS is not tolerated here. Not because we are "Matrox worshipers", but because we are a community, and protective of that community. When a problem like you shows up, we'll come out of the woodwork to torch you until one of 3 things happens...(1)you straighten out, and join the community in a freindly manner (2)you get tired of being the butt of our jokes, and the target of our insults and leave (3)Ant just boots yer ass, and we have a good laugh at your expense (which is problably the most likely at this point).

(If my ISP hadn't flushed my webspace, there would be a pic of a seamonkey with madman's name here )

[Madman]

Hi Jorden,

I'm sorry if I was ever rude to you in any way. As for the Haig thing, it just seemed odd to me that he even brought it up and didn't even offer me to replace the card. Creative would've done it with no charge even if there was nothing wrong with the card. So would Kenwood. Anyways, to get to the point, yes I do try things that people tell me, but after they tell me to do the same thing so many times I get very tired and upset. It just seems to me that people don't read what I post and I keep on having to repeat myself. That may be the reason why many of the people here thinks that I'm so hot-tempered. People kept on insisting that I had a cheapy motherboard when I've already said that I had an Asus P2B-F. They told me to isolate the IRQ for the G400 when I've already did. This brings much frustration to me and I'm sorry if I've offended anyone by it. Thanks again.

Madman

[everettes]

I must say, I agree with Madman about all the tweaking to his system JUST to get a Video Card to how it claims. I've never had ANY card on any of my systems cause as much trouble as this one. Look at my SIG. I DO NOT want to hear things like swapping cards, rearranging IRQ's, disable Busmastering, force AGP 1x. I've tried this on a TYAN 1832 AND the current Intel SE440BX-2. They don't get better than these two boards. As you'll see, all my hardware is the best in it's class. I did that and spent EXTRA just to have a system that's stable and powerful. I keep all bioses current and keep all newer versions of drivers on a secondary hard drive.

This system has run from day one with no problems and three other video cards. Until I got the G400. Finally I've gotten it to run stable AFTER putting the SCSI in the FIRST, yes first, slot and forcing them to share IRQ's. I removed every piece of hardware (except the SCSI adapter) and did a clean install 6 times total, and EVERY time it would freeze and lock.

I better quit here, I'm getting worked up just thinking about it.

Let's just say that after trying everything posted in these groups and MANY clean installs trying cards in different slots, it's quite annoying to have someone still chalk it up as user error. There's something not right with the video board, period. I don't want to hear "It's picky". I'm hoping the next bios upgrade will fix it.

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PIII550, Intel SE440BX-2, 2 x 128 Kingston PC100 ECC, 2940U2W, Seagate Cheetah, G400-32 SH, Plextor 8\20, Plextor 40Max, Pioneer 303s, SBLive!, MS FFPro, Altec Lansing ACS-48, Sony CDP 520GS

[Madman]

Kruzin,

Thanks for the info, but the last paragraph was uncalled for. I don't ever recall telling you to take your head out of our arse, and I don't appreciate you telling ME to do so. And I never did say I was an "Awesome" tech so don't put words in my mouth. You know all the stuff that you've told me? They might be useful to me, but you do have to realize that the majority of the population probably doesn't even have a clue to what you're saying and it all comes down to this: If the video card works or not. It's not working the way that it should in my system and I'm peeved. I do recall that you were the one that started being rude to me in the first place. If you would only go check out the very first thread that I've posted. Of course you might flame me for this but I'm already used to it.

Joel-

Who's the one that's not reading? I think it's you. Try and catch up on the reading before posting blindly. Of course you already think I'm a prick so it probably doesn't matter anymore.

At least I'm the only one (other than Jorden) that has the decency to admit that I'm wrong when I'm proven wrong. Not a single one of you has ever admitted that you were wrong even when the god of wrong was flying right at your face!! C'mon guys. Be a man. (or woman if that applies to you)

Madman

[This message has been edited by Madman (edited 03 November 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Madman (edited 04 November 1999).]

[Joel]

Well...hmmm....you see...hmmm...oh hell what's the use, you're not going to listen to us anyway.

Joel

[Jorden]

Okay Madman, before I grab the fire-extinguisher, will you try our unorthodox, non-Matrox things to get you on the way??

No need to say sorry over and over again...

And if you get double questions and people asking you over and over again, just ignore them, read over their questions until you find one you haven't answered yet.

Don't go the way like "I've tried that already and it didn't work" in the possible next couple of posts.

First off give us your precise specs. (again)
I mean from the top to the bottom, it even includes the monitor you have attached...
And give us your IRQ list. Try to be coorporative and we'll figure it out.

And even when we can't figure out what's wrong, then there's the RMA.

Are you ready to try that?

Jorden

[Joel]

And don't ask us to not insult you when you did it in your first post of this thread.

"I am NOT an american. I'm glad because I don't have the arrogance and the stupidity of most americans. As for the worshipping thing, if you're a regular human being, you would've taken that as a joke."

Joel

[Kruzin]

OK....to refresh my memory, I went and looked at the first few posts of the original thread. You need to do the same. It was you who first got bitchy with me after I tried to explain a couple of truths of AGP. You went off on some left feild tangent of buying a damaged car, and completely discounted my efforts to enlighten you. Don't tell me you don't feel insulted when someone takes what you say and tries to "analogize" it in a way to make what you said look stupid.

Sorry if what I said here sounded out of line to you, but I do not mince words. I will always say what I want, no matter what anyone might think of it. This thread simply irritated me to the point of saying what I felt. You implied that Haig (someone I deal with daily, and know to be a very good person) was some kind of sham artist, and tried to make it sound like he was targeting or threatening you, when he did no such thing. I'm glad you now better understand what he meant...

Also glad you seem to have calmed down a few notches from your earlier posts. As long as we can all be civil to each other, and respect others efforts, postings, or aggrivations, there is no problem we can't figure out...

[Madman]

Hi Jorden,

Here's the info for my particular system.

Panasonic P15 15" Monitor
Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Theatre 5.1
250W ATX Power Supply
Asus P2B-F Motherboard
128MB PC-100 MicronTech DIMM
Creative Labs 2x DVD-ROM IDE
Ricoh 2/2/4 CDRW SCSI Internal Drive
Mitsumi 1.44MB Floppy Drive
Microsoft Natrual Keyboard Pro PS/2
Matrox G400 Max AGP 32MB VC
Creative Labs PCI DVD Decoder card Dxr2
Sound Blaster Live Value PCI
Creative Labs Voodoo2 12MB
Adaptec 2940UW SCSI PCI card
Harmony 56.6k ISA int. Modem
Quantum Viking II UW 4.3GB SCSI HDD
Maxtor 4GB HDD IDE
HP Deskjet 720C Printer
Microtek ScanMaker V310 Scanner

IRQ List:

0 System Timer
1 Standard 101/102 key Microsoft Keyboard
2 Programmable Intrrupt Controller
3 Com Port 4 (ISA Modem)
4 SB Live Value!
4 IRQ Holder For PCI Steering
5 AHA2940 PCI SCSI Controller
5 Intel 82371AB/EB PCI to USB Controller
5 IRQ Holder for PCI Steering
6 Standard Floppy Disk Controller
7 Printer Port LPT 1
8 System CMOS/Real time clock
9 Free (disabled sb16 emulation for dos)
10 Creative PC-DVD Encore
10 IRQ Holder for PCI Steering
11 Matrox G400
11 IRQ Holder for PCI Steering
12 Cordless (PS/2) Logitech Mouse
13 Numeric Data Processor
14 Primary IDE Cont. (Dual FIFO)
14 Intel Bus Mastering Controller
15 Secondary IDE Cont. (Dual FIFO)
15 Intel Bus Mastering Controller

There she is. All my specs. Oops, forgot to add that my system freezes up when trying to run the G400 at 2x with bus mastering enabled.

Madman

[This message has been edited by Madman (edited 04 November 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Madman (edited 04 November 1999).]

[Jorden]

Okay Madman, what I look at is that IRQ#9 you disabled for SB 16 emulation.. any SB 16 emulation should be at IRQ 5 for DOS... could you try to turn the SB Live! to IRQ#9 and the emulation to IRQ#5 ??

To do this is by setting your PCI slot with the SB Live! in, to use IRQ#9 in the BIOS PNP and PCI Setup menu.
The SB Live! shouldn't be in SLOT 1 though, for then it uses the same IRQ as the G400.
Plus set your PnP OS to disabled. (same menu)

I have an Asus P2B and I tweaked my system to do so.

In the mean time I'll let you in the hands of Kruzin and the rest... and I hope they won't attack you nomore... (guys??)

I'm off to bed for a few hours, will check in again at around 7am my time (Dutch time)

Jorden.

[everettes]

0 System timer
1 Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural Keyboard
2 Programmable interrupt controller
3 (free)
4 (free)
5 Creative SB16 Emulation
6 (free)
7 U.S. Robotics 56K Voice Win
7 IRQ Holder for PCI Steering
8 System CMOS/real time clock
9 Intel 82371AB/EB PCI to USB Universal Host Controller
9 IRQ Holder for PCI Steering
10 Creative SB Live! Value
10 IRQ Holder for PCI Steering
11 Adaptec AHA-2940U2/AHA-2940U2W PCI SCSI Controller
11 Matrox Millennium G400 - English
11 IRQ Holder for PCI Steering
12 PS/2 Compatible Mouse Port
13 Numeric data processor
14 Primary IDE controller (dual fifo)
14 Intel 82371AB/EB PCI Bus Master IDE Controller
15 (free)


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PIII550, Intel SE440BX-2, 2 x 128 Kingston PC100 ECC, 2940U2W, Seagate Cheetah, G400-32 SH, Plextor 8\20, Plextor 40Max, Pioneer 303s, SBLive!, MS FFPro, Altec Lansing ACS-48, Sony CDP 520GS

[everettes]

BTW

Please note that the system is the most stable it’s been while sharing and IRQ with the SCSI adapter. It has also had it’s own on other installations. AKA: IRQ’s don’t seem the deciding factor here.

I have done a BAREBONES with only the SCSI adapter as the additional card and still had the same problems.

At first thought I had a bad card, but am now convinced it’s the video card’s design. Too many people having the same problem.

It’s running OK now (just over 18 hours), but it took 8 days to get to this spot. I’d like to know that If I need to install again that the same thing isn’t going to happen. The BETA 2000 drivers don’t cause this, so far. But they also aren’t fully functional.

PLEASE, If tech support can send me the most functional drivers they have for 2000. You’d never hear from me again. As long as I can do my work, and play a little I’m fine.

But the .chk files from scan disk are filling up my root directory because of all the reboots.

NDA’s are fine. I’ll put it with the rest. I just need something that’s stable enough for me to RELIABLY work.



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PIII550, Intel SE440BX-2, 2 x 128 Kingston PC100 ECC, 2940U2W, Seagate Cheetah, G400-32 SH, Plextor 8\20, Plextor 40Max, Pioneer 303s, SBLive!, MS FFPro, Altec Lansing ACS-48, Sony CDP 520GS

[Joel]

With that much equipment in your machine I would also suppect that it could be a power supply problem. That's alot of stuff for a 250Watt power supply to handle.

Joel