Specs: G400 vs. G450?

[Steve Snyder]

I've seen the announced specs for the G450, but don't understand how they compare to the current G400 cards.

What are the advantages of the G450 over the G400? Over the G400-MAX?

Is it possble at this point to extrapolate performance differences on the basis of the G450 specs, or is the RAM type sufficiently different that only actual benchmarking will tell the tale?

Thank you.

[Kruzin]

There has been no "announced specs" for a G450 yet. There has been no G450 officially announced at all. Anything you may have read has been nothing but rumors and speculation.

But you're in luck...the folks around here live for rumors and speculation

[Ant]

For rumours and speculation read unauthorised leaks. See the front page of the MURC for a few real specs that have leaked out of Matrox's far east offices.

[Jammrock]

The "rumors" go as follows, for those too lazy to go to MURC and read Ants stuff:

G400 - Being discontinued in Q3 2000 to be replaced by cheaper to make G450.
G450 - Production starting any day now, will be out Q2 2000 and will replace the more expensive to make G400.

G400 - 0.25 (0.22?) micron die, 16-32 MB SGRAM/SDRAM, clocked from 120 MHz - 166 MHz, more for some o/c'ers.
G450 - 0.18 micron die (thus gives higher yeilds and therefore cheaper to make), 16-32 MB DDR (Double Data Rate) DRAM or FCRAM (FCRAM, no idea, but supposed to be faster), clocked at 166 MHz plus. Clocks should be able to hit 200 MHz on the FCRAM version for both GPU and RAM (hopefully).

G800 - 1-2 GPU's, full DX7 and DX8 compatibility, OpenGL, yadda yadda. 64-128 MB DDR DRAM/FCRAM, really stink'n fast, hardware T&L for DX 8, 0.18 micron die, dual-head returns, ships sometime in Q4 2000. The 2 chip version is 'supposed' to give the NV15 and V5 6000 a run for their money in fram rate and have Matrox video quality.

Remeber, these be just rumors and to be taken as such...rumors, not fact.

Jammrock

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Athlon 650, Biostar board, 128 MB PC133 (Crucial), G400 32 MB DH, SB Live! w/ Digital I/O, 10/100 NIC, lots of case fans, etc...

[This message has been edited by Jammrock (edited 13 March 2000).]

[cjolley]

So, does that mean it's time for me to pre-order?
chuck

[Mark F]

Yes it is, it's available in the specialty store; right next to Holly's bridge. Go hurry before they are all gone.

Mark F.

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OH NO, my retractable cup holder swallowed a DVD...
and burped out a movie

[Ali]

If we assume that the core will be at MAX speeds (150), and that the DDR Ram on the G450 will be at say 300Mhz, we should be able to work out a good estimate of frame rate.

If somebody with time on their hands were to clock there G400 at 150/150, then 150/175 then 150/200 and (if lucky) 150/225 you should be able to draw a line up the graph to what it would be like at 150/300 (roughly).

This would take quite a bit of time, cos you would have to do some benchmarking in multiple resolutions and colour depths.

You would probably need quite a powerfull machine to pump the data through to the G400 to make sure the results are restricted by the G400 not the CPU. Probably looking for a 700 Athlon or 733EB P3 or above.

I think that would make a nice project for Ant if hes not too busy, or if I get time this weekend, Ill have a go (My G400 will only go to 214Mhz mem, and I only have a P3600classic)

Ali

[Ali]

The reason I think the G450 will have a 150Mhz core is that Matrox will then be able to do away with the fan. This will save them money for a product that should still be quite fast.

This would be good for us, cos then we can stick a fan on and hopefully O/C the core quite a bit.

I wouldnt be supprised if they clock the G450 at 166 or so though. I would be supprised if they raise it too high (say 200Mhz). That would need a fan. As this is only a evolution of the G400MAX I wouldnt expect too big a jump.

also, the G250 was clocked at the same speed as the G200 (I think?) even though they went from .35 to .25 micron.

Anyway, I should do some work now, but Ive been thinking about this G450 a bit today. I think its about time to retire my G400 into my girlfriends machine, and update mine. I dont think she likes my old Voodoo2 SLI rig that much (she has my old G200 for 2D)

Ali

[Barbarella]

ali,

i don't know where you comme from but read this.

A)---------------
i've made the test with the memory on my g400. from 133/133 to 133/200 (processor/memory) with a PIII550 and it's rock. with an upgrade speed of 50% of the memory i get between 20% to 30% in game like Q3.

B)----------------
i just make a comment on my web site about a 166 Mhz G450 and DDR-Sdram clocked at 166 Mhz

C)----------------
My wife use my old G200. If the g450 works as we think, i will buy it and she'll get my G400.


Really are you Barbarella ? Don't say me you use a P3B-f and your girl friend a P2B, don't say me that

[red2]

The G250 is clocked 19% faster than the G200.

Where did you get the 150mhz core? The G450 is a G400 shrunk to .18 micron. It would be pointless to release a new chip at the same speed as the old one, unless it is only for OEM's, but current information indicates that it is not.

FCRAM is almost as fast as RAMBUS so I would expect the core to be between 200-250mhz.

[HollyBerri]

The G250????? Did I miss something? Or is that the model number for the G200 MMS??

--------------------
Holly

[Compton]

The G250 is(was?) OEM only, right? I was concerned that this may be the case with the G450 since they didnt think it was special enough to add more than 50 on to the name.

[Jammrock]

Personally, I am not going to upgrade from my G400 until I the V5, G800 and NV15's are all out. For my gaming needs the G400 is groovy with me. The only way I would get a G450 is if my G400 blew up.

I wonder how much the dual GPU, 128 MB DDR FCRAM, G800 is going to cost...

Jammrock

[Ali]

Barbarella, strange stuff eh? Anyway, Im from New Zealand, and my girlfriend has my old Asus P2L97-DS with a single celeron 333A, my old G200, and my old voodoo2 SLI setup. The only things she had to buy were the case, keyboard and mouse. Shes using my old 17 Viewsonic monitor too (no more dual head for me).

Red2, I said 150Mhz core, cos thats the core speed of the G400MAX, and the rumors on the MURC say its using a Max core. I would expect it to be a little higher (19% ?), but for the purposes of that test it didnt really matter.

I think we can safely say that the memory speed is going to increase far more than the core will.

From what Barbarella says, it looks like the core will be 166, and then memory at 333Mhz. I would be supprised if there is a fan on the card because of the extra cost.
I would also expect there to be some slight 'optimisations' to the core/WARP engine.

Anybody else have any thoughts on the matter?

Ali

[GD]

Hi,

I don't like the idea of a G450 much. It is just a product for Matrox to fill a gap in the market. Anyway I don't need a graphics upgrade right now the problem is the CPU. I can't wait for a G800 though :-). I think I will pre order it cause for some reason, in Greece Matrox products are really expensive (I paid VISA nearly 85.000 drs for me MAX, the local price here is nearly 113.000 drachmas and i'm not sure if it includes VAT).

Anyway I think the G450 will come with an increased core speed as well. For more info on FCDRAM visit http://www.toshiba.com/taec/componen...P_memory.shtml

Cya all