It's hard being a Matrox fan...

[Narayan]

Brian R., I'm not a "fan" of Matrox as a company - I simply have serious respect for their products, because I have been through a lot of them and have yet to be let down by one (except the m3D perhaps, but that wasn't a Matrox product, right . If you re-read my posts you'll see that I'm definetelly not pro-Matrox - far from it. I seriously question Matrox' business acumen, if there ever was such a thing.

If I should decide to purchase another brand of video card it wouldn't be like "changing sides" for me; that's not what I'm on about, I just feel insecure about the quality of the brand of choice, the quality I know I'll GET with the purchase of a Matrox card. And if that sounds like a load of PR bollocks then tough, I really believe in it.

Oh, and as far as nVidia are concerned, I have nothing against them, I just don't like their tactics and bullying, plus the fact that they release a new product before the user gets enough depreciation for his previous purchases.



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Currently powered by:
P3 600EB@700, Matrox G400 32MB DH, QDI Advance 9, 128MB PC133 Goldstar

[Barbarella]

hi,

i'm agree with narayan, it's sometimes hard to wait. Well, a G400 16 Mo it's sometimes not enough, for exemples try to play UT (> 35 fps) at 800*600 full quality with a PIII550, PC100-222 192Mo, P3B-F, ... well not easy.

But like you everyone here i know if i buy a Geforce i will missing my G400, so i'm waiting.

@++

[foft]

Matrox's main marked it OEM AFAIK. So they are not necessarily losing significant market share.

Also consider if they have equal amounts of engineers to nVidia. By putting them all on one project and spending more time the product should be superior.

Finally think about what is happening to the pricing of nVidia/3DFX cards. It is pretty much going through the roof IMO. This is not sustainable or we will be paying $1000 for a card! By waiting Matrox can assure that they can continue to sell cards for a sensible price.

These are my theories anyway - feel free to flame away:-)

[CraziFuzzy]

Well, I can't say I am TOO happy with the support i've gotten from Matrox. I used to have a Mystique in my computer a number of years ago, and i lived with that for a long time. Then, when it bit the dust (completely died at about 4 years old), I did some research and spent a load of cash for a Marvel G200 AGP-TV... perfect for me since i am in the navy, and was living in the barracks. had my TV, VCR, everything right in one little package. saved a lot of room... well, now, after having the marvel for over a year, i have all but lost all support from matrox. They have VERY mediocre win2k drivers that still support it, and those don't work properly (can't use video capture). I also purchased the DVD Upgrade for the card. wow... that was nice... it wouldn't run at all on my previous CPU (K6-II) and when i got a K6-III it ran for about 45 minutes, and then the sound will start losing sync with the video. My decoder is still in there, but i get better DVD playback by simply running WinDVD and missing a few frames here and there. My card does not support power management (not exactly an OLD technology) so i can't suspend my computer, without fear of it never coming back. I see tons of new drivers being released by matrox, all of which saying that they do NOT support the Marvel G200 series of cards... I was afraid of getting a new card, because of the high cost of the G400 Marvel, and have seen numerous other companies coming out with cards that offer DVD playback, Video In/Out, and much better 3D, for cheaper, and i will have a system that WORKS. sure, the quality might not be as good on the other cards as far as video in/out, but that sounds like a reasonable trade-off to me.

[Brian R.]

Nrayan - I was not addressing my post to you or I would have named you. My post was addressed to the many people who seem to be "fans" instead of users. Not a disagreement, just a rant.

BTW, your statement "It's hard being a Matrox fan, isn't it?" is pretty silly anyway if your not a fan. If you're not a fan, the statement is inflamatory.

[This message has been edited by Brian R. (edited 13 August 2000).]

[Riddek]

I hope Matrox can make a comeback and dive back into the fray with something as groundbreaking as the G400 series was when it was first released. I really do. Matrox's quality of product has never been in question in my eyes.(I will continue to use my G200 in some capacity-it's a great card)

What they need to work on is their marketing strategies and new product development/delivery timelines. The competition is running circles around them.

ATI has new Radeon cards for both PC and Mac platforms, including a new "All-In-Wonder". They practically own the Mac OEM market.

3dfx is kicking butt with their Voodoo5 product line for both PC and Mac. Voodoo6 apparently will be a force to reckon with.

nVidia is covering all the bases. They have formed a strategic alliance with Elsa to provide pro level Quadro2 PRO & MXR cards to workstation OEMs. They provide the GeForce2 GTS chips for the die-hard gaming OEM & retail markets. They provide the GeForce2 MX chips for the consumer level OEM & retail markets. (I'll bet they heavily push the MX chips in the laptop OEM markets) They will also be supplying the chips for the Microsoft X-Box when it is released.

nVidia is positioning itself to dominate the OEM world. They already have a lot of big players on their side. What has Matrox been up to lately? If they rely heavily on OEM sales, they had better get up to speed and FAST.

Competition is good for all of us. I would love to see Matrox out there with new technology, holding its own on the front lines. Maybe it's time they went public and ramped up the organization tenfold. They have the quality and reputation behind them, now all they need is the product development speed then it's "Look out world, Matrox is back!" (done in a Austrian accent, of course)

[Taz]

I think Matrox have a pretty big share of the OEM market when they are supplying the likes of Compaq, HP and IBM.

This thing of expecting companies to release new products every 6 months is only something started by Nvidia, which isn't necessarily benefitial. The longer a product is in the market place the more time it gives developers to utilise the new features it has. Look how long the Playstation has been around and look at the quality of the games being produced for it, they far exceed what people thought the hardware was capable of doing. This has only happened due to the time developers have had to learn all the tricks to get the most out of the hardware. The problem with the PC industry at the moment is too many companies are hurrying products out and dropping prices with the end result being a reduction in quality. Those companies who are trying to produce high quality products go out of business. I would rather buy products from a company who release infrequent products of a high quality rather than one who are constantly releasing new products before fixing the problems of their previous ones. Matrox had a reputation of being the former and I hope in there quest to beat Nvidia they don't become the later. The G800 when/if it's release may be the product which will make or break Matrox. I guess only time will tell.

[Barbarella]

want have more reason to wait, read this

http://www.insanehardware.com/articl...compatible.htm

[Randy Simons]

Ah, come on, I play UT on my G200 in W2000 on my K6-III 400. The old beast holds up pretty well, I have to admit.

Simply don't use high texture resolutions, and disable dynamic lighting.

[drzaius]

that's just bad eh?

it's wierd how Nvidia has changed, from the riva128, TNT days to now, with it "leading" the high-end market.
i personally hate Nvidia's 6 month product cycle. releasing new chipsets that give sub-100% increases is crappy. (particularly from Geforce to Geforce2)
and with all the complications that come with them, just so they can have their product meet it's 6 month dead-line.

now that i think about it the "6 month cycle" hasn't really been met (since the TNT2) i know that GF2's aren't compatable with everything, and there are new drivers coming so often to fix problems, so i wouldn't say that it's a final product yet.
are the original Geforce's finally up to code and work with everything?

and isn't the G450 something we gamers shouldn't even bother looking at since we know it's for a different market? yes 3d-accelerators are used for other things then just games

[Riddek]

Barbarella, thanks for the info. I sent two emails to nVidia and asked them to either confirm or deny these accusations. Guess what.. no response. hmmmmm.... I have a few people looking into this and until I hear anything I think I'll hold off on nVidia for now.

This still doesn't entice me to wait for "Episode G800-Phantom Matrox" though. If Matrox refuses to tell me what it is, what it can do, how much it will cost and (approximately) when it will be available, thanks but no thanks. I need something now.

If nVidia's chips are problematic, I'll probably go for a G400 to tide me over until my next upgrade. With the G450s coming out soon the G400 prices should start dropping.

BTW, I also agree that sacrificing quality to meet a 6 month product release cycle is idiotic. Take the time to develop a quality product. But be realistic... over a year? In the technology field that's a lifetime.

My guess is Matrox probably spent way too much time downsizing their chips (or something) then realized the competition got the jump on them. They do a minor upgrade on the G400s and announced the "new" G450s, buying themselves some time to caught up on the G800 development.

But who knows what's really going on behind closed doors. Matrox isn't telling us anything.

I think Taz is right. Whatever the G800 turns out to be and whenever it is released may be the product that decides the future of Matrox.

I'm willing to give Matrox the benefit of the doubt because of the incredible quality of their products in the past. Despite the fact we're always kept in the dark, "I want to believe." It would really help keep hope alive if they let us know what they're up to once in a while, though. The truth is out there....

[Michel]

I don't think 6 months cycles are good for the products. Just think of it, The biggest diff. between Geforce1, 2 GTS, 2 Ultra are clockspeed and memory speed. The gf2 does have some new features, but they are not groundbreaking.

I get the feeling that Matrox doesn't just improve their last product by putting faster mem and clocking the core higher (like nvidia does) but are redesigning their products from scratch everytime. That way they can introduce groundbreaking new specs (but take a longer time to develop).

I do think that Matrox should communicate more about their future products, but on the other hand why inform your concurrents on what your making... At least Matrox could give in date or something.

[Brian R.]

You can be sure that both NVidia and Matrox will do whatever makes their respective companies the most money (taking into account corporate history and philosophy, personel talents, previous commitments, etc.)

If people keep buying NVIdia cards twice a year, then that's what they'll market. Don't blame NVidia, blame the consumer.

[Taz]

Unfortunately Matrox have employed a group of Monks to develop the G800, and they've all taken a vow of silence

[Brian R.]

I hope they pay them enough (or whatever) to keep them from jumping ship.