Looks like we're out of luck with the G800

[Novdid]

I´ve always liked Matrox and has because of that ended up defending Matrox while all my friends rush out to buy an ATI or NVIDIA part. It wasn´t hard to decide wich manufacturer that were the best 18 months ago when the G400 was released and the MAX kicking the TNT2 Ultra´s ass. But times have changed with the MAX not even getting near the performance of top ATI and NVIDIA chips.

I know Matrox makes a lot of money in the OEM business, but the image of the company gets severely damaged if they can´t keep up in the high end arena. Nowadays my friends and most of the people out there think of Matrox as a good but underperforming company.

Soon the good thought they have about Matrox fade away and the OEMs realize that the costumers want to see that their systems comes equiped with cards from ATI or NVIDIA. ATI was rated by me as company with bad cards until they released the Radeon. Now when people hear ATI they think of Radeon not the Rage series of cards that got a bad reputation. Matrox needs the same thing. They may earn a whole lot more by selling cards to OEMs but they need a high performing and sexy card to promote the the brand "Matrox"

[Rags]

Why would they need to? By your reasoning (ATI can wipe away it's entire history of crappy drivers, non existant tech support, blatantly false claims, and underperforming hardware with the release of one card) Matrox can wait three years and not make a card at all, then release the best the world has to offer, and it won't matter. Right?

Or do you see what I am getting at?

Rags

[Sisyfos]

Hi Rags
I don't want to be in your ass, but at work, I just want it to wotk.
Can you get these "****oles" to understabd?

[Rags]

Sisyfos,

You had better not be in my ass

As far as the rest of your post, can you elaborate? I really don't understand what you are trying to say, or if you have a problem with me in particular or what. Please explain.

Rags

[mj12]

Actually Joel your wrong. I see thousands of machines come into work and guess what the Dell Precisions are coming with...nvidia! Your statement about them putting them into the low end celeron's is a silly statement. Why would an OEM put an expensive video card into a low end OEM machine? I just ordered 50 machines for work and have recieved about 20 so far. I ordered a couple machines from every OEM including the Alienware's, etc. Not ONE machine has arrived with a Matrox card in it. A few have voodoo's and the rest are either Nvidia or Ati. Nvidia has cut right into the OEM market that use to be owned by Ati by first capturing the Gamer/enthusiast market were they've first made a great name by being the derling of all the hardware sites and game companies. They have very high visibility and marketing. Now with the release of the GeForceMX and GeForceGO they are going to stomp right into the low end PC and laptop market. The point being is Matrox is asleep at the wheel and will become the next Number Nine as Ant joked about. Just put your bias aside and look at what is going on in the market. Go to all the OEM sites and tell me what you see. What you don't see is Matrox. They are going to be squeezed out by everyone else. And no the g400 CAN'T keep up with current technology. It WAS great in it's day.....two years ago and 4 nvidia products later. Can you believe that! Since Matrox released the G400 nvidia has pumped out the TNT, TNT2, GeForce, GeForce2, GeForce Ultra.

[Liquid Snake]

Actually, the G400 came about TNT2 time. The TNT was released before the G400.

[Rags]

And let's be realistic, the GeSpot/2/ultra are really the same card, just massaged speed ups in the clock of the chip and memory.

Rags

[Amiga Blitter]

While the other 3d cards manufacturer have the power to push them into the home/office, corporate, and professional users markets (see NVIDIA mx twin view, go etc - ATI mobile cpu and other) without leave the gamers market, Matrox doesn't seem to have this capabilities.

[Casey Jones]

"Amiga Blitter" is that some new type of acid? You been partaking in some acid lately?

[Joel]

Well all I can say is that the company I work for buys exclusively from Dell and the 6 Precision workstations that we got in last week all had G400MAXs in them and the 4 that was order a couple of months ago also had G400MAXs in them. The castrated nVidia M64 that does come in the lower end workstations is IMO a piece of crap. Even the G200 SD PCI card I have in my workstation, which I put in there to replace the crappy integrated ATI, is better than the M64. And if we ever have to replace it with something else we usually end up have to rebuild the system because, unlike Matrox, nVidia does not provide an uninstall utility. And when I asked our Dell rep why they were using crappy nVidia cards he said they needed something to tide them over until the G450s came out.

Joel

[Jeff]

I buy some Dells form my company of the graphics choices in the Precision workstations I believe there are 3 or 4 nVidia choices and 1 Matrox then some expensive stuff.

Matrox needs to watch out as PEOPLE buy the OEM systems and if they are able to recognize another chip as being more up to date and faster because of all the retail press then they will choose that.

JP

[A-Dog]

In a thread like this it's quite silly to talk about things like 2d image quality and all the other attributes that make Matrox cards great for business.

We're here as gamers. If we weren't gamers we wouldn't even know what a g800 was. Don't tell me you need the g800 for those spreadsheets or for Photoshop. Let's just be honest and say that, as gamers, Matrox has failed us.

Yes, Matrox makes a quality product. The g450 is the Honda Accord of graphics cards. Reliable, well-designed, refined. The problem is, we're gamers. We love all those Accord-like qualities but we want something faster. We're looking for a Porsche.

Joel, your enthusiasm for Matrox is great but don't confuse graphics cards with religion. A while back, I criticized Matrox and you suggested I leave the message board. And I did. I went bought a GeForce2 from Ubid for $159 and I've been enjoying mind-blowing video-game graphics ever since.

Yes my image quality has suffered a bit I don't have dual-head or that UltraSharp RAMDAC, but hey, I've got my Porsche. And I couldn't be happier.

The problem Joel is, when people like you get on these boards and preach about the greatness of Matrox and how the g800 will blow everything away and will be out soon, people believe you. And they wait. And they get frustrated. And they wait some more. And finally they get angry, because they've been waiting for a year with an inadequate graphics card while all their friends are enjoying the newest games at the speeds and resolutions that they were meant to be played.

Think of it like this, if you weren't allowed to go to the theatre to see a movie like The Matrix, if you had to watch at home on VHS, wouldn't you be pissed? I've been waiting for games like No One Lives Forever and Black and White and Giants to come out for a long time. No that they're finally coming out, I'm sure as hell glad I've got the hardware to play them.

My fellow gamers, you aren't committing a sin if you buy a card from ATI or Nvidia. This is not religion. You can switch between brands freely. They all have strengths and weaknesses. Find the one that matches your needs and don't feel guilty if your choice doesn't say Matrox on it.

Peace,
A-dog

[Joel]

Joel, your enthusiasm for Matrox is great but don't confuse graphics cards with religion.

...when people like you get on these boards and preach about the greatness of Matrox and how the g800 will blow everything away and will be out soon, people believe you.

They don't call me Father Joel for nothing.

Joel

[Joel]

Hey A-Dog,

I went back and found that thread you were talking about. I see that nothing has changed. You still don't have a sense of humor.

Joel

[Pace]

Well I expect this to be a long post as I'm replying to the whole thread - sorry in advance

Damien Green (Post 1): The news about the G800 is not news, it's a guess like everything else in here. We've seen a few leaks of info, both Ant's one and an earlier one which was pulled as well. Oh, and I feel disgruntled, I've got a TNT2!

Joel: Hehe, yea, it's a shame to see this been seen as news.

Greeve: Originating from here? Where's all that cheese on toast stuff I was promised then

Ant: Well that's the facts, it's not here yet so if you guys want to go elsewhere, then go. I promise I won't laugh

Damien/Tom: Yes, GDC seems about right, but then so did September the 11th. As for the lack of announcement they indeed have announced nothing - this is M as per usual. Maybe someone who knows more about their PR can elaborate on this however, regarding the information they 'remove' and the information they allow to stay - is there any likelihood as to what will be most correct information?

Good Health: See above, Matrox tend to give us zero info. This is not news. And NVIDIA the richest card company? Er, check that. Investors are upset - only because they can't invest in a private company!

Elie: Yup.

Joel: Yup.

Greebe: Yup. (now the idea of replying post by post seems a bad structure!)

Barbarella/Novdid: Well, I'd like Matrox to have done that, but I still hope that Matrox can give me an improvement in the one area they are lacking - gaming performance. I thought they might've produced a faster G450 than they have done but there you go. I'll elaborate on this later!

mj12: Bad business decisions? I think all the major OEM deals they've done more than make up for a small market like the retail gaming sector. I'm pretty sure technology is not advancing any faster now - just that NVIDIA are releasing cards every half-generation rather than releasing major upgrades that used to happen.

Ant: Yup, I agree totally! (well I should, that's why I'm a MURCer )

chip: If gaming is everything to you then you are right, Matrox is wrong for you.

Joel: Matrox are a great company with a few flaws indeed, but I buy their products because of what they offer me. (btw, I am agreeing with all of this!) The gaming market is the most profitable on a per card basis, but OEM deals are just so much more massive than a retail outlet. I'm sure if I was to go into my local PC superstore (e.g. PC World/CompUSA) I'd find that NVIDIA sell less chips in there than other manufacturers. If we count PCs that are sold that is! As for the G450 being the reason for the delay I disagree, I think the G800 delay is to blame for the G450 - they needed an interim product to 'sell'

Damien: Yea, Q3 at high res is where I want to be - I want a new card for speed here, but I want it from Matrox - or whoever can offer me what they can. And I get fuzzy text on my 19"!

Oracle: Hehe, retail gaming sales are so small - I hope Matrox still see it as important - but it certainly is not as important as staying afloat with OEM deals.

Joel: I'm laughing right there on the floor with ya!

Greebe: Yea - do you know each other? Or are you (Steve) posting in an alias to rile us up!

[END OF PART 1]