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  • #91
    Re: Even films use special techniques to keep the flow smooth at that framerate by using

    "Even films use special techniques to keep the flow smooth at that framerate by using very calculated camera movements. "

    I'd like to point out those special technicques are called nature of chemical film. It blurs if there is movement during it's exposure... it's why when you have a low shutter speed on your 35mm camera you have to be verry careful not to get a blurry image...
    I'd just like to point out that you are partially wrong. Your answer to my statement is totally wrong though. Take some filming classes, and get some experience, then open your mouth.





    I'd also like to say, as was stated before, any card that is out before doom 3 comes out, should be expected to bearly run it, or I won't expect the game engine to be around or have nearly as many game incarnations as the quake 3 engine has.
    I'd also like to respond that this has to be THE most screwed up line of logic I have ever had the displeasure of reading. Not only do you know NOTHING about what the minimum specs are, but you know no idea what can and can't run, or what can come out before the fabled Doom3 does.



    Keep this in mind the game quake 3 was toned down to keep frame rates high in multiplayer action, carmak will be going for eycandy galore in doom 3 since it's being designed for a single player experience. Now this matrox card might have a few features that the current lign of NVIDIA and ATI Products lack. BUt this lign has been out for months now, and the matrox card is not... so as "future proof" as you may think this card is, I know i'll personally be buying a new video card by the time doom 3 comes out, and that card will most likely run it great...
    Keep in mind that the same things were said about Quake3 when it was about to get released, and look how wrong they were.

    i'd also like to point out that every new generation of graphics card focuses more on upping the minum frame rate dramatically so that frame rates don't drop. Hardware T&L was a MUCH larger step in this direction then more multitexture and more memory bandwith... those actually aren't nearly as technoligically ingenious as people seem to think.
    Whoa. Time out. Get your facts straight. TnL did nothing, I repeat NOTHING, to keep minimum framerates up, it added new accelerations for the graphics hardware to do. The first cards with TnL were worthless, GF1 and 2 included. They sucked. Their min. framerates were horrible, even in Q3, which was supposed to take advantage of TnL. Now that they are actually using a more logical step of TnL (and why you see Matrox adopting it), you will see the true benefit, and that is the games that will add more scenery and complicated graphics that cards will be able to accelerate in hardware.



    Like I said earlier, Video card companys would win my buy a lot easier if they didn't try to put soo much foresight into their cards, becuase guess what, the card ISN'T going to be the best card for games in the future, and i'm gonna want a new one, so make me a card that's good for the games that are out when the card is out... and make it have a price that works well with a 6-8 month video card life cycle and i'll be happy as a pig in mud.
    Yet again, the whole point of NEW FEATURES is lost on you, which is not surprising, since you fail to show any valid logical reasoning in this post thus far. Cards have to be first with the features. This is not a chicken and the egg dillema. It's very clear the burden is with the hardware to innovate new features, THEN it becomes the burden of the gaming community to start using said feautres.




    Oh yeah and not to rip on tripple monitor support but what I'd much rather see then tripple monitor in one card, is run a fast AGP card for front monitor, and have someone get around to making a PCI card that's not years out of date and market it with software support for them to handle toned down graphics for left and right screens for multimonitor. As limited as the PCI bus may be, it's still not taxing your AGP bus even more in graphics. As long as your PCI bus isnt' already way to overcrowded it should be ok... but the only real thing that NEEDS to be running on PCI when you play games is network....
    Oh boy. That's a step backwards. One card, fast enough to drive 3 monitors in NEW games. Is that so tough to understand? Instead you would rather have one AGP, two PCi, and then work out the nightmare for the game mfrs. to support such a configuration, and wait for the graphics card companies to come together on a single driver that will drive all three, keeping all three within the same framebuffer at all times.

    You are obviously out of touch with reality.

    Not to be mean, but it's the truth.

    Rags

    Comment


    • #92
      Re: Re: Even films use special techniques to keep the flow smooth at that framerate by using

      Originally posted by Rags


      Oh boy. That's a step backwards. One card, fast enough to drive 3 monitors in NEW games. Is that so tough to understand? Instead you would rather have one AGP, two PCi, and then work out the nightmare for the game mfrs. to support such a configuration, and wait for the graphics card companies to come together on a single driver that will drive all three, keeping all three within the same framebuffer at all times.

      You are obviously out of touch with reality.

      Not to be mean, but it's the truth.

      Rags
      1st that's been done already genius, just not the PCI AGP bridge... 3dfx did it YEARS ago...




      "I'd just like to point out that you are partially wrong. Your answer to my statement is totally wrong though. Take some filming classes, and get some experience, then open your mouth. "


      I have taken some film classes... The reason you get motion blur in any type of film is due to changes during the exposure of the film. not some "special techniques"





      "I'd also like to respond that this has to be THE most screwed up line of logic I have ever had the displeasure of reading. Not only do you know NOTHING about what the minimum specs are, but you know no idea what can and can't run, or what can come out before the fabled Doom3 does. "

      Ok I do know that Doom 3 needs more then quake 3 to run... and if something can't run quake 3 at highest quality at a high res, then it's not gonna run doom 3 with such settings...

      "Keep in mind that the same things were said about Quake3 when it was about to get released, and look how wrong they were. "

      Ok you got me there, great was a bad choice of words, a card bought when the game comes up will most likely run it better then the current Matrox card... which isn't out yet....

      "Whoa. Time out. Get your facts straight. TnL did nothing, I repeat NOTHING, to keep minimum framerates up, it added new accelerations for the graphics hardware to do. The first cards with TnL were worthless, GF1 and 2 included. They sucked. Their min. framerates were horrible, even in Q3, which was supposed to take advantage of TnL. Now that they are actually using a more logical step of TnL (and why you see Matrox adopting it), you will see the true benefit, and that is the games that will add more scenery and complicated graphics that cards will be able to accelerate in hardware. "

      umm WTF are you talking about... there's a HUGE difference between how a Voodoo card with comperable fill rate ran Open GL games then a Geforce... and it's because hardware T&L took load off the processor.. which at the time was a huge bottleneck. memory bandwith always has and always will be a bottleneck, and I do give matrox credit for addressing it and makeing huge steps to help solve it.

      Comment


      • #93
        ""Even films use special techniques to keep the flow smooth at that framerate by using very calculated camera movements. "

        I'd like to point out those special technicques are called nature of chemical film. It blurs if there is movement during it's exposure... it's why when you have a low shutter speed on your 35mm camera you have to be verry careful not to get a blurry image... "

        I think you are referring to motion blur which occurs when using a camera with a low shutter speed or even when shooting something in low light.

        What does this have to do with what Rags is saying?

        Ciao

        Comment


        • #94
          "I have taken some film classes... The reason you get motion blur in any type of film is due to changes during the exposure of the film. not some "special techniques" "

          Are you guys talking about eliminating motion blur, which by the way has nothing to do with a smooth flow, or are you talking about what causes motion blur?

          Either way, motion blur has nothing to do with the flow of the playback, it's just purely a crappy look.

          Ciao

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: Re: Re: Even films use special techniques to keep the flow smooth at that framerate by using

            1st that's been done already genius, just not the PCI AGP bridge... 3dfx did it YEARS ago...
            You are not making your point whatsoever. SLI using the same framebuffer between two IDENTICAL cards using the same driver is NOWHERE near running three independent cards running independent monitors. It's no how, no way the same thing as what you are suggesting (which, btw, is totally a step backwards)

            I have taken some film classes...
            Where? MotoFoto? Or was it Wal Mart's 1 hour film developing section? Because if you don't realize that camera movements are very calculated and deliberate partially due to keeping the film smooth, you are seriously not educated in motion pictures.


            The reason you get motion blur in any type of film is due to changes during the exposure of the film. not some "special techniques"
            What the hell does that have to do with what I posted? Also, don't forget that you can easily get a choppy scene with the improper shutter speed and film type selected. See over and underexposure in your Walmart handbook.



            "I'd also like to respond that this has to be THE most screwed up line of logic I have ever had the displeasure of reading. Not only do you know NOTHING about what the minimum specs are, but you know no idea what can and can't run, or what can come out before the fabled Doom3 does. "

            Ok I do know that Doom 3 needs more then quake 3 to run... and if something can't run quake 3 at highest quality at a high res, then it's not gonna run doom 3 with such settings...
            Uhh...yeah...so what's your point??? It's a bit like me saying "the average family size in America is 3.6 people" It may be right, but what does it have to do with this conversation and this thread?

            "Keep in mind that the same things were said about Quake3 when it was about to get released, and look how wrong they were. "

            Ok you got me there, great was a bad choice of words, a card bought when the game comes up will most likely run it better then the current Matrox card... which isn't out yet....
            Okay, you got me there. There will always be something new around the corner. Do you want the bonus round prize?

            "Whoa. Time out. Get your facts straight. TnL did nothing, I repeat NOTHING, to keep minimum framerates up, it added new accelerations for the graphics hardware to do. The first cards with TnL were worthless, GF1 and 2 included. They sucked. Their min. framerates were horrible, even in Q3, which was supposed to take advantage of TnL. Now that they are actually using a more logical step of TnL (and why you see Matrox adopting it), you will see the true benefit, and that is the games that will add more scenery and complicated graphics that cards will be able to accelerate in hardware. "

            umm WTF are you talking about... there's a HUGE difference between how a Voodoo card with comperable fill rate ran Open GL games then a Geforce... and it's because hardware T&L took load off the processor.. which at the time was a huge bottleneck. memory bandwith always has and always will be a bottleneck, and I do give matrox credit for addressing it and makeing huge steps to help solve it.
            Wait a minute. You said MINIMUM framerates. Do some research on the various forums for "GeForce Q3 Stutter" You will soon see the light.

            Rags

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by GinoCyber
              "I have taken some film classes... The reason you get motion blur in any type of film is due to changes during the exposure of the film. not some "special techniques" "

              Are you guys talking about eliminating motion blur, which by the way has nothing to do with a smooth flow, or are you talking about what causes motion blur?

              Either way, motion blur has nothing to do with the flow of the playback, it's just purely a crappy look.

              Ciao
              Well, Mr. Wizard seems to think that the only reason the framerate of films in a theatre look smooth is due to motion blur, which is WRONG!!!!

              Rags

              Comment


              • #97
                Must admit, I've never heard of that one before.

                Ciao

                Comment


                • #98
                  Mr. Wizard ... that brings back childhood memories.

                  "Drizzle, drazzle, drizzle, drome. Time for this one to come home."
                  <TABLE BGCOLOR=Red><TR><TD><Font-weight="+1"><font COLOR=Black>The world just changed, Sep. 11, 2001</font></Font-weight></TR></TD></TABLE>

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