Announcement

**WaltC** · 28 February 2003, 12:16

Years ago I used nothing but Matrox, but that all ended with 3D and my highly disappointing experience with Mystique (I still can't get over Matrox's position on point sampling at the time.)

Matrox knows what it has to do to right the ship--get into 3D with a dynamite architecture--it's that simple and that hard. Sourround gaming is at best a tiny niche within the 3D gaming niche of the market (about 10% of the overall market, but a much larger percentage of the market in terms of profit $.)

FAA was a great idea--only about 1 year late, at least. In this market great ideas don't generally stay great for much over a year at best. Fact is though that with a strong enough 3D engine Matrox could have added the "S" to FAA, much as ATI has done, and still had enough performance.

I think in a sense Matrox doesn't know whether it wants to be 2D or 3D and has had a problem recogonizing that the paradigm today is 2/3D, period, and that 2D-3D distinctions died with the 3dfx Voodoo II (Voodoo 3 was 2/3D.) It's a shame--at one one time Matrox was the company to match for quality products--but that was in the pre-3D era. Companies either sweep the market along in the wake of the technologies they can build, or else they are swept along in the wake of the technologies that other companies build. You asked...

**FormerEx-SalesSoup** · 28 February 2003, 14:06

you need to think about the proportion of business users to gamers and then realize who makes more sense to go after. it's really simple...300fps means nothing to corporate users.

what do they need?

quality, better productivity, reliability.

what results in catering to the biggest proportion of the market with the most money to spend?

sales, profits, $.

what will ATI and NVidia do when the speed barrier is permanently broken and everyone stops caring about FPS?

they'll try to mimic Matrox's strategy.

**WyWyWyWy** · 28 February 2003, 14:15

Originally posted by ex-SalesSoup
you need to think about the proportion of business users to gamers and then realize who makes more sense to go after. it's really simple...300fps means nothing to corporate users.

what do they need?

quality, better productivity, reliability.

what results in catering to the biggest proportion of the market with the most money to spend?

sales, profits, $.

what will ATI and NVidia do when the speed barrier is permanently broken and everyone stops caring about FPS?

they'll try to mimic Matrox's strategy.

I thought Matrox employees ain't allowed to make comments like this

Anyway, quality and productivity, yes. But reliability is no longer with Matrox (hardware and software issues).

About ATI and NVidia, the speed barrier is still years away...

**thop** · 28 February 2003, 14:18

quality, better productivity, reliability.

You are probably not allowed to comment on that, but is the infamous parhelia banding an issue for corporate users? or are MURCers the only ones complaining about it and making the whole thing look a lot worse than it is.

**FormerEx-SalesSoup** · 28 February 2003, 14:39

Originally posted by thop
You are probably not allowed to comment on that, but is the infamous parhelia banding an issue for corporate users? or are MURCers the only ones complaining about it and making the whole thing look a lot worse than it is.

you're right. i cannot comment on that issue, unfortunately.

**FormerEx-SalesSoup** · 28 February 2003, 14:44

Originally posted by WyWyWyWy
I thought Matrox employees ain't allowed to make comments like this

Anyway, quality and productivity, yes. But reliability is no longer with Matrox (hardware and software issues).

About ATI and NVidia, the speed barrier is still years away...

i didn't say anything that people don't already know. Parhelia is just as much a corporate solution than it is a Surround Gaming solution.

and, I beg to differ with your comment about Matrox's reliability. I can guarantee that the number of major issues relating to Matrox cards compared to those of the the competition is significantly smaller. though I have no numbers to back this up, I am confident that Matrox customers are generally much happier with the reliability and stability of their cards than other users.

the speed barrier is much closer than you think (think about the recent NV31/34 fiasco). people will begin to realize that quality and stability is a better investment than going with a board that has a fan that drowns out the noise of your CPU fan, just to get 20 more FPS.

**Mikko** · 28 February 2003, 15:07

Just take a quick look at Rage3D forums for example and you may see a huge amount of trouble postings per day.
A LOT MORE, than we could ever see on Matrox Tech Support Forums or here at MURC.

Off course there are more users on that forum, but still...

**Fluff** · 28 February 2003, 16:13

quote 'quality, better productivity, reliability'

From matrox point of view, having a card that won't play the latest games well, could be taken to a view that productivity is increased by not being able to play the games, and people will be doing more work with their 3 screens

To be honest if i had a card like a radeon 9700, i'd probably be wasting my time benching it and going look at me i've got a fast card.

Also matrox probably realize that flashy graphics don't make a game any more fun. Doom 3 or a 4 way mario kart i know what i'd choose....

The final question is off topic, and a bit nostalgic what is the best/funniest adventure game you played?... Sam'n'Max hit the road is high on my list.

**Topha** · 28 February 2003, 16:19

Day of the Tentacle, Indy 3+4... Great games. With the Parhelia you can play them all at once, so if you get stuck in one you can play either of the other two until the solution just comes to you

And of course the Monkey Island series, although i only played 1+2

**OasisPlaces** · 28 February 2003, 22:18

Originally posted by ex-SalesSoup
you need to think about the proportion of business users to gamers and then realize who makes more sense to go after. it's really simple...300fps means nothing to corporate users.

what do they need?

quality, better productivity, reliability.

they'll try to mimic Matrox's strategy.

Soupy.. that is the fundamental problem strategy..
knowing where you're going and attacking..

I don't know how long you've been there.. several years
ago matrox had a strategy, and a game plan.

Look at the dubic+titan/atlas/athena/storm based series.. their selling point
was 3D, and ramdacs in the 200Mhz+ ranges, at that time
if you seriously used 3D cad, you needed a matrox
type dynaview in the prompt, and bang.. you had 3D shaded
objects to examine in real time..

a few years later they still had the same market..
and started to neglect it for the gaming market..

(back at the ranch) nobody's like nvidia were catching
up fast.. by investing in good engineers..
and focusing thier product to a specific market..
the "I can tell the difference if it's 30fps or 2000fps"
looser.. single brain celled organism.. commonly
refered to as the l33t GaMeRZ..
I prefer to abreviate it to laMeRZ...

the oem market slowly erroded.. and as time progressed it
just got worse and worse.. you had so many resources
spread so thin each doing it own thing.. the company
focus was like grease on the lens..

parhelia would be the best example of this.. from day 1
no one could make up their mind what market this would
sell to.. cad... gaming.. medical.. let's put every possiblity
in this beast.. and you have a monster of chip.. it's got
more xsisters than most cpu's... from an engineering
stand point.. the chip is a work of art.. once it hit silicone..
well.. they had a 12cyl Jaguar and couldn't
properly tune the carbs on it.. and had to find a way
to market, and cost compete with a Geo... everyone
put on those cute fireman hats with the red siren light
and began scurrying and screaming the sky is falling..
and it fell.. cad... gaming... oem.. niche.. video..
where DOES iT FIT oN THE PyramId???!!!!

possible Morals to the story..
Too may dizzy cheifs.. not enough smart warriors..
salary = productivity = gray hair..
It's really dark in the boss's bughole.. YES SIR!!!
market strategy shouldn't be like playing pinyata
better to build a bunker with steel.. concrete.. not wood..

**ElDonAntonio** · 2 March 2003, 01:46

I guess the biggest threat would be an asteroid crashing on Dorval.

**Stringy** · 2 March 2003, 07:20

It's great to say your going after the business market, but look at the business market??
You say they want Quality? I'd say they want cheap - Except for say Design and maybe a few executives, which is a small niche market
the main Business market is all about cheap, Intel's i815 among many others suits that bill easily...

Also there were mentions to look at the Rage3D forums to say that ATi's product is poor, umm do you think the number of cards ATi sold are equal to the number Matrox sold to the retail public?!??!
I don't, there are more problems because there are proportionally more users...
Not to say the P is bug infested, but I don't think using a Message boards activity as a sole measure of its stability is a good one to use...

Matrox has great product designs, though I think their execution has let them down, wether that's from poor management, poor direction or even poor tools and resources is unknown...

The way I see the market today is, you make this insanely fast board, price it high, get your R&D money back, release a few stripped versions, make some profit and then start the cycle over again...
The market is changing, the fluf we hear now is all about the "features" Matrox's Montra a few years ago...

Craig

**GNEP** · 2 March 2003, 08:54

Nope. In my business they want reliable, causing as few conflicts as possible, quality (so they don't get sued by employees for causing eye strain...) and only then cheap. They running costs of IT systems would appear to be far higher than the hardware alone. And all IT investment is done on a "Total Cost Of Ownership" basis.

**Indiana** · 2 March 2003, 11:45

Originally posted by Fluff
http://www.driverheaven.net/display....hard_interview

Would like to see this kind of interview from a happy Matrox employee.

Look at the following quote:

Yes, all the Code Mafia guys could see this kind of thing happening at NVIDIA. We fought these errors from inside NVIDIA but the management didn't agree with our judgement about what was wrong

Now if that doesn't sound reminiscent of Matrox...

**Chief_Inspector** · 2 March 2003, 20:17

Oasis makes good points. I think it was Ed Dwyer that was running the show when he turned Matrox into a half a billion $$ company and picked up all the OEM's. Then someone else took over and Matrox is where they are now. Wonder who wood that be.

"market strategy shouldn't be like playing pinyata"

it is if you've never done a marketing survey

"better to build a bunker with steel.. concrete.. not wood.. "

Nasty

CI

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What do you guys think is the biggest threat to Matrox Graphics.

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