The response I got from Sierra about the G400 performance with Tribes

[The Rev]

This thread was not to show any sort of attack (I might be taking this the wrong way). I wrote Sierra/Dynamix in hope I could show some support for G400 (and even non-nVidia/3dfx) users who play Tribes. I would hate to see Tribes2 come out and have it only work on a GeForce256. Tribes is my favorite game, and I know plenty other non-TNT/3dfx users who know their video cards have the capibility to have the same flash as the TNT/VooDoo series. It really seemed strange that I can play Q3Test fine at 1024x768 with high quality and have it run nice and smooth on my G400, yet Tribes in OGL will crawl along in a graphical glich at 640x480. Then to be told the G400 can't push enough polygons and such. I know my G400 has the potential to run just as well as a TNT2 in Tribes. So I'm trying to find out whats holding back the G400 and why. And maybe once I find that out, I can do something about it (if possible).

In response to the G400 not being a gaming card: From what I've seen, it seemed that after the G200 was not a huge success in the gaming market, Matrox made the G400 to resolve that. The marketing aspect seemed to show it can not only be a card in workstations, but one in a gaming rig too. I think Matrox did a very nice job with the G400, as every other game (besides Tribes) I throw at it, it has no problem running great.

I still haven't emailed the Tribes programmer but I will try to shortly. Hopefully he will comply and port it to the C64.

A Tribes Player

[Snake-Eyes]

The Rev- I hope you don't mind, but I already sent off a message to the developer, and I included a copy of the messages you sent/received from tech support on the issue. Additionally, I asked whether there was a chance for further patches addressing the poor OpenGL support for non-nVidia cards in Tribes 1. I also asked whether this issue would be addressed in Tribes 2, and let him know that there are quite a few people that love Tribes that no longer have a V2 or TNT in their systems, and who are greatly looking forward to playing Tribes 2, accelerated on their non-3DFX/non-nVidia cards.

One other thing I did was to correct the biased comments in the reply you received-
1. G400 is not a slower card than TNT2U(maybe not much faster, but NOT slower), at least on the right hardware.
2. G400/G200 (now) both do have full ICDs (even if they're not fully optimized yet).
3. The G400 is more popular than they think, and would be owned by many more if distribution were better from Matrox to outside vendors.

If anyone wants to see a copy of the message, just send me a note, and I'll forward a copy. Otherwise, just hang around for an update once I get a reply from Nels (if I get a reply, that is).

------------------
Ace


[This message has been edited by Ace (edited 15 October 1999).]

[DigitalWelfare]

REV- I didnt mean you were "attacking" or were responsible for the attacking... I mean the guy that sent you the reply was obviously biased, and when people make their comments, It seems that theres always someone that wants to A>prove them wrong B>discredit them.. I think its silly. The guy had no clue about what he was talking about. Im sure.


I never directly said, that it was NOT a GAMERS card... I DID SAY- THE NUMBERS SHOW IT IS... Its a high end card, that seems like it would be used by developers rather tha your average gamer (which will soon change) The technology in the G400 is amazing, and the fact is the developers of tribes most likely never incorporated that much power out of a chip (as far as developing goes) I mean it was optomized for GLIDE... assuming everything they tested it with was a late Voodoo2 SLI at best... you guys "supposedly" are beyond V2 SLI... its like the DOOMGL that came out... why would someone really want to play that?

The fact is...TRIBES is gonna remain sHIt although tribes 2 should incorporate OpenGL.


I hope you guys get your issues solved, and the diamond servers... are most likely GLIDE users, I have yet encountered anyone in TRIBES on a nvidia card.

Pound the developer with what you guys expect... It will only be their economic loss.....

peace:





BEt you anything that thats not glide... maybe this is the notorious "Optimization for TNT OGL" hehehe

------------------
a digital display of evolution
(G200 with aid of Diamond Monster 3D II-SLI)

[Snake-Eyes]

Okay guys. Here's Nels Bruckner's reply to my message-


While I feel that the response you received was perhaps a
little harsh and (by thier own admision) from an uninformed sorce, they were
right about a few things. Mainly, the current OpenGL driver from Matrox
isn't very good yet in many ways. The Matrox OpenGL support is targeted at
games like Quake (and all the many clones) which stress the driver in very
different ways than Tribes. Matrox has assured us that they are working on
this and they do seem to get a little better with each new version. One
thing that was not accurate in the reply that you got was the implication
that the Tribes team simply didn't make Tribes run well on the Matrox cards
because the user base is so small. There is no truth to that at all. We
looked very closely at the Matrox cards during our development but our hands
were very much tied by the state of the OpenGL drivers. Also, the part
about "[there is] a very good change G400 special support will be included
in Tribes 2" is purely speculation on their part. No 'special support' is
planned for any cards at this point. I expect T2 to run well on any card
that has a solid OpenGL driver. The G400 certainly has the hardware to do
it and hopefully Matrox's drivers will support that hardware better by Q1 of
2000. I expect that they will.

--Nels


Sounds promising, huh?.

------------------
Ace


[This message has been edited by Ace (edited 15 October 1999).]

[LAMFDTK]

1st " I have yet encountered anyone in TRIBES on a nvidia card."

Yea I used one for a year and my brother and his pals all are running TNT TNT2 cards with tribes. And to let you in on a secret IT WORK DAMM WELL ! hehh

2nd Great follow-up Rev, for G400/Tribes fans lets hope that things work out!

[[PCXL] Mabelrode]

Ace -

Thanks for keeping us up-2-date on this.

[The Rev]

Thanks for the support all

Ace: I didn't mind you writing Nel at all. Actually i'm really glad you did! Your email seems to have addressed most of my concerns. Could you post the email you sent him? If not, its ok.

It seems talking directly to the programmer was a good idea as it brought some good information. Time to take apart Nel's reply piece-by-piece, as all fear.

"The Matrox OpenGL support is targeted at
games like Quake (and all the many clones) which stress the driver in very
different ways than Tribes. Matrox has assured us that they are working on
this and they do seem to get a little better with each new version. "

So Nel has been working with Matrox to some point. Excellent. I would like to hear what Matrox's programmers have to say about all this. Are Matrox's OpenGL coders focusing on Tribes as well as Quake and many other popular games? Is there a problem in the way Tribes implements OpenGL that is making it tough on Matrox's OpenGL Programmers? Can this be resolved between Matrox and Dyanmix?

"We looked very closely at the Matrox cards during our development but our hands were very much tied by the state of the OpenGL drivers."

Has the Matrox ICD improved enough so now Tribes can be tweaked accordingly? What needs to be done?

"No 'special support' is planned for any cards at this point. I expect T2 to run well on any card that has a solid OpenGL driver."


Yay! Thats some good news. I will try to e-mail Nel with the above questions later today. Any other questions anyone wants me to add?

A Tribes Player

P.S. It may seem like im going a long way for one game, but I feel it's a better way of resolving things then just whine. I hope others take action instead of whining when their games don't work properly. Get constructive.