Argh! g400 lockups... help!

[Wannabe]

Hi Gus,

have you ever tried to disable Video-Caching or Video-Shadowing in your mother board bios ?

Before disabling this functions, my computer locked up randomly. Now it runs like a dream.

Here are some other suggestions that I found in an email from the Matrox tech-support:
Go into your mother board bios and disable any "VGA frame buffer", "full frame buffer", and/or "primary frame buffer".

Go into your mother board bios and disable "Cache Rd+CPU Wt Pipeline".

Go into your mother board bios and disable pipeline caching, or byte merging.

Good luck
Wannabe

[Gus]

okay, thanks for those suggestions!!!

i've tried going into the bios and switching off the videochache and shadow, but that don't fix the prob. Switching of CPU and External Caching makes my Pc about the same
speed as a 286, so that can't be right.
The other options Wannabe mentioned, I wasnt able to find them. Pipeline caching, frame buffer etc. arent listed in my bios...
No device is sharing an IRQ address, the matrox is at IRQ 9 and the SBlive at slot 11. Ive installed the LiveWare3, but i'll try the new drivers too.

I tried starcraft tonight, and it worked flawlessly. Finished the first level without anything locking up so I guess non-3d games are ok... (windows98 is running smooth too)
And i've watched an entire DVD movie without errors, and the Acer DVD is using the Matroxcard too.
I'm indeed using a TVTuner in my PC (a MIRO sort-of-thing I believe..?) but I don't know what it has to do with 3d games... Well i don't know how to fix it either so :-)

Maybe it has something to do with emptying the PCI slot next to my AGP slot, or changing the RAM-type... I can't open my PC until monday though, else the warranties will vanish into thin air. (is that correct english?)
Thanks for sharing the expertise though... I'll test some openGL games too, and fiddle around with the bios some more.

Gus

the MURC msg board actually works! despite my computer laughing in my face, Ive regained trust in humanity!



[This message has been edited by Gus (edited 16 January 2000).]

[Wannabe]

By the way, after changing the bios settings I reinstalled Windows98 and the G400 drivers.

Ok, now I´m out of ideas...;o)

Wannabe

[Muad'Dib]

Ok, I'm having the same problem (but I think I have a defective card). Gus, since you got your new system, did you flash the bios on your G400? Someone once said when changing your mobo, it helps. Try that if possible. What PDesk version are you using? The stuff you want to find should definately be under your bios somewhere. Just look for it really slowly (and if that doesn't work, hit it ! ). Which version of windows do you have (someone asked, but I can't find your answer, sorry). Post up your IRQ's too, when you get a chance. You said they are fine, but it couldn't hurt (pull "system info" and paste them in here). You have the latest chipset drivers/patches for your mobo? Sorry for all the questions, but ...

Hang in there, we'll get that card working eventually.

[Gus]

ok. first of all thanks, i didnt expect so much help!
Here we go: Im using Windows98 Dutch version. Not Special Edition or something.
I translated the IRQ list to English, hope it's understandable:
01 Systemtimer
02 Microsoft Keyboard
03 COM2
04 COM1
05 IRQ holder for PCI-Steering
05 Standard OpenHCD USB Controller
06 Standard diskdrive
07 LPT1
08 System CMOS / Realtime clock
09 Irq Holder for pci-steering
09 Matrox G400 16mb Singlehead
10 Irq Holder
10 Creative SBLive! 1024
11 Irq holder
11 StudioPCTV (thats my tvtuner)
12 Wheelmouse PS2
13 Numerical dataprocessor
14 Standard double pcIDE controller
14 Primary ide controller (fifo)
15 standard double pcide controlller
15 Secundary ide controller (fifo)

That's about it. I'll search the bios again, and i'll try updating the bios of my matrox. is that what you meant by flashing? Please tell me how to flash something if its not updating. I certainly hope it's not a defective card... Is matrox techsupport any good? I sent them an email friday, i expect reply monday...

Gus

It seems another Murc user, FFVIIguy has almost the exact same problem...

[Gus]

err... actually i'm ashamed to say this, but the problem is still there. ive tried flashing the mobo, but it doesnt help a bit. ive installed the IDE/USB update from AMD (i've got no idea what it is but it said "update" so i clicked download) and still zip. The MicroStar mobo is on the approved list of Athlon, so I guess this isnt a power supply issue.
the PC was 100% new, so I installed Windows98 on a freshly formatted harddisk. Ive never opened the PC myself (i'll let the store do that next thing tomorrow, else my warranties are gone). Maybe it's an IRQ problem. But how do I change the IRQ settings? In my BIOS i can either select ISA or Legacy ISA for each IRQ slot, and thats about it. No assign irq to agp/pci or something.. The pipeline caching option isnt there either. And i suspect it has something to do with caching, because the pc sometimes locks up (freezes) when scrolling down a textfile in acrobat or windows help. So im unable to read any of the helpfiles that came with my tv tuner / printer.. great!

Gus

is there a limit to the size of a thread on murc? isnt this thread too long?

[Gus]

more adventures of gus in hardwareland, episode 22, "Revenge of the Miniport"


i just installed the AMD AGP miniport thing, (whatever that is) and there is some progress here: the techdemo wouldnt even load before, but now it loads and freezes after a half minute. a lot like unreal (though i can play unreal for a longer period)
Someone on the matrox videocard newsgroup posted a thread about games locking up because of overheating. Id like to hear someones opinion... (i don't know anything about all that hardwarestuff :-( )

to be continued

gus

[fds]

Gus,

Ok, let's go through the steps again to make sure you did them all.

You downloaded and installed the AGP Miniport Driver, Version 4.45 from AMD and let it reboot the machine when it wanted to: http://www.amd.com/products/cpg/bin/miniport_445.exe

You downloaded and installed the IDE Bus Master Driver Version 1.24 from AMD and let it reboot the machine when it wanted to: http://www.amd.com/products/cpg/bin/eide_124.exe

Downloaded the 1.4 BIOS upgrade for your motherboard (stupid MSI Taiwan has a broken download link for 1.5..): http://download.msi.com.tw/bbs/686ba...7/W667MS14.EXE

Copied the file to a temporary folder, for example C:\bios
Double-clicked on the file to self-extract it. Rebooted your computer. Held down Shift before Win98 would load, selected "Command prompt only safe mode" from the resulting menu. Typed
cd \bios
awdfl741

When asked for the upgrade filename, typed in w667ms14.bin
"Do you want to save BIOS (Y/N)?" unnecessary, so you can type N
"Are you sure to program (Y/N)?"
Yes.
Waited until you get the message "Flash EPROM Program Successful." Then rebooted your computer (switch power off/on if you don't have a reboot button). Entered BIOS setup. Checked if it says v1.4 correctly. Selected "Load SETUP defaults". After that went to the various menues, Auto-Detected your hard drives or just left it on Auto; set AGP Aperture to 256. Left anything else on the setup default setting.

Installed Live!Ware 3 for the SB Live!. Rebooted. Installed the November SB Live! driver updates (www.sblive.com). Rebooted.

Installed the 5.30 PowerDesk drivers for the G400. Rebooted.

StudioPCTV has no driver updates yet as far as I know.

Intalled DirectX 7a from Microsoft (for example www.windowsupdate.com). Rebooted.

That's about everything you could have done on the software side of it.

When you finally get to opening the case, check the following:

- the G400 is firmly in its slot
- your case has a good power supply
- nothing is overheating

Heat is bad. It can cause lockups, crahes, reboots, graphical glitches and so on..

Since your G400 isn't a MAX, it only has a heatsink but no fan. Maybe you should get a fan installed on it, but first try if it's any better with the case off.

Anyway, be satisfied with your system! I could not get the StudioPCTV to work in mine.
I'm using an Avermedia TVPhone98 now.


------------------
--
primary sys: ASUS P2B-DS, Dual P3-500, 512 MB RAM, SB Live!, Pioneer 303, Yamaha 6416S, and of course a Matrox G400 MAX
secondary sys: Abit BE6, P3-500, 384 MB, SB Live! Value, Pioneer 303, and of course a Matrox G400 OEM SH 32 MB

[This message has been edited by fds (edited 16 January 2000).]

[fds]

Oh, and if it still doesn't work, before you start pulling your hair out, pull the other add-on cards out first one by one, finally leaving only the G400 inside.

If it still doesn't work, chances are the hardware is faulty. It happens. My dad's machine just spontaneously rebooted time to time. Replaced the video card. Replaced the sound card. Replaced the RAM. Still rebooted randomly. I suspected the motherboard was at fault, heard of people having problems with faulty ASUS mobos, even though it was the same type as mine which worked perfectly.
In the end it turned out one of the CPUs were at fault (Intel Pentium II 400's), as when we upgraded it to P3 500's, the reboots are finally gone.

I had a network card completely die in my system after a year's use. Not to mention the numerous dead hard drives.
What never failed me so far is the Matrox video card. Have been using Matrox since the Millennium II.

[Jack_the_Ripper]

Hallo GUS, maak je e-mail eens bekend, dan kan ik je een tweaker sturen die van Matrox afkomt. Ik had dezelfde problemen, en deze register tweaker heeft me geholpen, alleen mijn joystick kan ik nog niet gebruiken.

------------------

[Gus]

Thanks for still trying to help, fds! Appreciate it a lot!
I exactly did all those things the way you described them although not in the same order. Ive started with directx, and did the bios updates after installing the matrox drivers. Well, that doesnt matter much, if the people here on murc are running out of ideas there are probably no sane ideas LEFT anyway. So I'll just drag my evil machine to the store monday, and force the employees to open the case. It probably has something to do with the heat (hotter air than on my old system is coming out of the back of the case) or some other piece of electronics. It's a pity Mircro-Star makes such useless motherboards (imho) - you cant see temperature, or check IRQ settings or advanced cache systems.
I'll post the PowerLine Computershop story here tomorrow, might help somebody else.

Gus

"is the matrox card -really- dead?"
"will the sblive survive the case-opening?"
"how will gus deal with overheating?"
-find out and watch the next episode of gus vs the hardware meister-

[Greebe]

ROTFLMAO

------------------
Designer of the first commercial Athlon mod.
Anyone up for an Eclipse'd Athlon? Email me (epc@netdirect.net) for more information

3000 mips, 1.172 gflops @ 900 mHz 1:3 latency
CPUmark99 75
FPU Winmark 4890

3Dmark 99 Max (8x6 16, 16, triple) PD5.41
8000
15181

[fds]

Did you reinstall Windows 98 after the motherboard/CPU change?

The IRQ list seems to be fine, other than the fact your G400 is using IRQ 9. Well, probably it doesn't matter but I've seen someone telling people G400's like to have high IRQ's, like 11. No personal experience though. Just checked my IRQs and the G400 is using IRQ 16, SB Live! is on IRQ 17.. Hehe.. didn't even notice it before that an ACPI-compliant OS (Win2000) and motherboard gives you twenty IRQs. Anyway, if nothing else helps you might try to get the G400 on IRQ 11, 12 or 15. There is probably an option in your BIOS setup to set which PCI slot uses which IRQ. One of them is sharing its IRQ with the AGP slot, you only have to find out which. (It is probably documented in the manual which came with your motherboard.)

On to drivers.
Isn't there some special INF/driver installer specifically for your motherboard? Either on a CD which came with your mobo or on Mirostar's website. If so, install it. (The latest, so check the website first.) Maybe there is something on AMD's site too. I never had an Athlon myself.

Download and install the latest drivers for all the add-on cards, except for the G400. Athlon people seems to have the most luck with 5.30.

BIOS updates:
Yes, flashing means reprogramming it to another version. The G400 had no BIOS updates for a long time, at least mine came with the latest BIOS currently available (1.5-22, go to Control Panel - Display - Settings - Advanced - Information to check the version).

More importantly check whether there is a new BIOS available for your motherboard too.

[Gus]

totally nothing. they advised me to install the microstar utilities and drivers, which turned out to be old versions of the amd bus and ide patches and some goofy tools like "supersoftcooler" and "busracing". Puke.
When does the hurting stop?...

gus

[Wannabe]

Hey,
"supersoftcooler" and "busracing",
now you know exactly what to do, don´t you ?
;o)
Keep smiling!

Gus, have you tried to reinstall Windows after changing things like the bios settings or stuff like that ? A few month ago I had the same problem and I had to reinstall W98 (after changing my videoshadowing and/or videocaching) to get it working.

Wannabe