Does the Pope visit the MURC?

[Helevitia]

LOL! I'd pay to see birds fly out of anyone's ass just for the comedy of it If you notice birds flying out of your ass, I would suggest keeping it to yourself. Safer that way.

Dave

[Himself]

I don't mind the flying bit, but the emergence bit would be rather disgusting.
No offense to the niceness of anyone's ass.

[The PIT]

Gas comes out of my Ass but never birds

[merchant2112]

ALBPM, single malt, a mans drink. (Glenfitish, glenlivit and dewers (in that order of pref. for me.)

Ian, by pointing out that your religion was not a major "mainstream one" I was not including it in my generalization that organized religions are corrupt money-grubbing power mongering controlling institutions. a good thing in my book i don't think your church ever brain washed some poor idiot into blowing up a rival church, government building, "embassy housing etc. in the name of God. And I’m talking about christen based radicals as well, (pro life activists shooting doctors and or blowing up a health clinic.) but I was also implying that if it ever did become a large organization, that you should watch out because it could very easily and quickly become corrupt (only because most people are a weak willed lot and are easily to lead down the garden path (and out to the hangman’s noose) let me also say that I don't mean any offence by what I say here, its my opinion, and what I believe nothing more. (I just can't under stand how so many people can ignore the facts, and out right contradictions in there own religions and history.)
Now I’m sorry I got Easter wrong (it’s been a while since I looked up what holiday coincides with what pagan or other religions stolen holidays. I don't practice any ting these days (except counter strike)

As for the Church of England. I used that as a reference only because I remember it was created to suit the needs of Henry VIII and it is somewhat based on the chaotic catholic believes. Witch was created to supercede the old pagan / earth religions.

I don't read study or want any thing to do with any religion right now and it has been a long time since I have. (Any my parents are both active in the local catholic church my dad is a knight of Columbus member and teaches catechism, (I love them both, they know how I feel about religions we don't talk about it much (the know me to well to try and convince me, and I don't bring up my view's because it upsets them.)

Any one see the movie stigmata????? What did you think????


[This message has been edited by merchant2112 (edited 17 May 2000).]

[HedsSpaz]

merchant,
I understand now, and I agree with you. The larger the organization the greater the chance for corruption. This is one of the reasons why I am not now and probably never will be a card carrying member of this church. I have my own personal faith and views that coincide with the churches views, and I see a value in attending church services which I can get here.

I would like to say that I respect your views completely. I believe that every person must come to know God in there own way. Not everyone will come to know God at all in this life. I believe that when a person dies, they will be shown what the truth is, if in their life they have lived by it, then they will be able to accept it as truth, and accept God as the King of Kings. On the other hand, if a person hasn't lived a good life, then they will be presented with the truth, and they will reject it, and they will end up in Hell.

The intersting thing is, what religion SHOULD be about, is things that we as human beings really should be practicing in our everyday lives anyway. Charity towards the neighbor, honesty, integrity, etc. We speak of these things all the time and so many people don't practice it though. Lots of people use the excuse that because no one else is behaving then why should they bother.

At any rate, this is what religion should really be about, love to the neighbor and love to God. My personal opinion is that if you choose not to believe in God, fine, but at least be good to your fellow man.

Sigh, I geuss we can just keep hoping that someday people will actually figure that out.

Gurm,
I agree completely, although I think I might be a little bit more zealous. Marriage is the most sacred thing that God has given man. And we have successfully managed to remove most of that sanctity.
Also, anullments are only the tip of the iceberg, the entire concept of indulgences is just about the stupidest thing the Catholic church ever did. It's difficult to believe that anyone ever actually believed that they could have their sins forgiven by giving the church money. If you do something wrong, then you've done something wrong, thats all there is to it. To believe that a mortal man can tell you that you are forgiven because you gave him money, and then to expect God to uphold that decision?! Not a chance.

Ian

[paulcs]

"Rome has spoken."

- St. Augustine

If Augustine had posted that to the Internet, it may have looked like this:

Rome has spoken.

I've seen at least two occasions in this thread where *I believe* people are confusing the history of the Church with the history of the Papacy. They seem to coincide with certain historical events and corresponding claims of Papal supremacy.

In the mid-fifth century, Leo I got the toothless Western Emporer to agree to his claims of authority as Supreme Pontiff, but the Western Emperor hadn't enough power to maintain his own authority, much less the Pope's. Leo himself wrote that the response from St. Hilary to these claims was in "language which no layman even should dare to use and no priest to hear." (I suspect Hilary told Leo where he could stick his "authority.")

There were *a lot* of Popes in the 12th century. A lot. Yesterday, I counted at least 20 "official" Popes, and, from what I understand, there may have been ten more. The institution was a mess. The only direct intervention into the eclesiatical on the part of the Holy Roman Emperor that I know of, certainly the one of most consequence, was done at the request of a council of Bishops lead by Hildebrand. The Emperor had the reigning Pope expelled and exiled, and Hildebrand became Gregory VII.

Gregory wasted no time in claiming authority that went well beyond the ecclesiatical. Instead of just Supreme Pontiff, Bishop of Bishops, he practically claimed that he was king of the world.

The Holy Roman Emperor, technically, was subservient to the Pope. The Pope bestowed the title, and it was why Charlemagne was hesitant to accept it. Otherwise, you were stuck with the title, King of the Romans.

It's hard to place a date upon when the Church became The Catholic Church or when the Bishop of Rome became Pope. It was certainly legitimized and institutionalized under Constantine, the first Christian Emperor. The history of the Church is pretty chaotic and filled with these "defining" events. I don't think you can just pick a date and say, this is when it started.

I'm not comfortable with much of what the current Pope has done during his tenure. I, like many others, believe much of it is outside the spirit of Vatican II. But, rituals aside, and in many ways, the Catholic Church is more rational than most religions.

It accepts no "literal" interpretation of the Bible and makes no claim that the Bible is, in any way, history. When the Vatican declared evolution a "viable theory," it made a clear distinction between the natural world and spiritual matters. This is something many religions refuse to do.

I was brought up a Catholic in a very Catholic neighborhood. My grandparents owned a Bible. My parents had several. Every practicing Catholic family I knew of owned Bibles, and the *vast* majority of people I knew as a child were either Catholic or Jewish. And as for the fork business, I'm sure the Church has quite a few blue laws that it has paid no attention to in centuries. It is illegal to keep your mule in your bathtub in Brooklyn. Big deal.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[Gurm]

Want to know something else horrifying? The church is STILL SELLING INDULGENCES. It's just more clandestine now.

My wife's grandfather died... and at the funeral there were these little envelopes. And written on them were:

"Any donations places in this pre-addressed envelope will go towards making sure that the brothers of <insert monastery name here> pray diligently for the soul of <insert grampa's name here> to pass more quickly through purgatory."

And other language to the effect that the more you paid, the quicker he'd get there.

THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS PURE UNADULTERATED EVIL. Have I mentioned that yet?

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Gurm]

Speaking of the KOC, has anyone seen their ad campaign in the Sunday paper insert called "Parade"?

It has titles like:

"Prayer - Talking With God, his Angels, and his Saints... a how-to guide"

and

"Annulments - Protecting the Sanctity of Marriage for Hundreds of Years"

EXCUSE ME? Annulments are the most insane thing in the world! NOT the kind where you get an instant annulment like 24 hours later because you were drunk or never consummated the marriage, but the kind where you've been married 10 years, have 2 kids, and the church lets you BUY an annulment (see certain Kennedy family members). HOW FRIGGIN' RUDE.

And we won't even get into the prayer thing.

- Gurm

[paulcs]

Now, that's evil. Does the Diocese know about this?

I'd be really pissed off if I paid the extra money and my relative ended up in hell.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[This message has been edited by paulcs (edited 18 May 2000).]

[Alec]

The Pope was here (in fatima, Portugal) last weekend. I like him, although I´m against religion in general and the excessive admiration of a person - in this case he´s deified (is this correct to say, gramatically, I mean).


I LIKE THE POPE ----- THE POPE SMOKES DOPE

[paulcs]

"Deify" means to make into a god. Are you talking about personality cults?

I'm not crazy about this Pope, although he's gone a long way in eliminating a lot of the hocus pocus. I think he's awful on social issues. My vote for the next Pope (if I had one ) goes to Cardinal Martini, Archbishop of Milan. He's a Jesuit, however, which is trouble. I suspect he's been visiting the MURC.

I didn't much care for Mother Theresa either. She really gave me the creeps.

Gurm, if you really want something to worry about, you might want to look into the sainted woman's other agenda. Why, after she raised so many hundreds of millions of dollars, does her mission in Calcutta still look like a mission in Calcutta?

Follow the money.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[This message has been edited by paulcs (edited 18 May 2000).]

[Gurm]

At least televangelists are only HALF greedy. They send money to starving kids around the world.

The Catholic Church demands that you don't use contraceptives, and then does NOTHING to help feed the BAJILLIONS of children that their doctrine produces in Ethiopia and other third world countries. Instead, they sit and finger all their gold.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Alec]

I´ve been thinking about religion, that I considered to be the culprit of the world´s misery and violence, and I came to the conclusion that CULTURE, more than religion, dictates the way of different civilizations.

Football, (soccer, for you american friends) for instance, is capable of making people violent (remember Chelsea-Galatasaray, and yesterday´s Arsenal-Galatasaray?). This is just one small example.

I´ll stop here cause I´m at work, but I´d like to discuss this more.

[Himself]

Random thought:

Is all the fuss over the idea of a human like God about having an fantasy parent figure that perhaps you didn't have growing up? Let's see, it lays down strict rules, forgives all your mistakes, doesn't mind much if you don't call very often, stays out of your life, and only gives you grief when you want to move back in. Living up to the expectations of a phantom dream parent is about on par for all the other silliness we humans get up to. Perhaps "honour thy father" should read, "Thou shalt support the old man when he gets old".

Another:

Would anybody want to visit let alone dwell forever in any of the ideas of Heaven proposed by the various religions? Some talk about a peace of mind, a contentment for all eternity, sounds more like my idea of hell. I think most people would settle for a heaven that was just like life on earth, perhaps the only modification would be no taxes.

Without contrasts there are no absolutes, you can't be happy unless there is sadness, otherwise you are just in a blah frame of mind or in some form of euphoric daze with no mind to speak of.

[Alec]

Well thought...