Gun Registration through IRS!!!!!!!

[Kruzin]

Jake:

I do not own a single firearm. No handguns, no rifles. I am not here to say, as you put it, "I own a gun. I'm so cool, I s**t icecubes", because I don't own a gun. I do have a billy club and a rather large hunting knife stashed within arms reach of my bed however, and I have owned firearms in the past.

Nevertheless, this IRS registration is total BS. One of the pricipal rights our country was founded on was the right to freely bear arms. This gave us a way to defend ourselves, and that need is still there. And we dont need the Internal Revenue Service getting in the middle of it. Let them collect the taxes, and leave it at that.

We don't live in a utopian society. There is bad out there, and as a parent I have every right to protect my family from that bad stuff. If I lived in a different neighborhood I would not hesitate to buy another gun. Fortunatly, I am in a good area, off the ground floor, and my stick-n-prick are enough for now. I sure as hell hope if/when I decide to purchase another gun I won't have to register it with the tax man.

You say "run away, run away". I firmly believe a person has every right to defend themselves. Would you run away while someone broke into your house, raped you wife, and murdered your kids? By the time the cops got there they would all be dead. Personally, I'd rather blow the bastards head off before he had the chance.

You go ahead and run away while your family is slaughtered.
My family will be alive tomorrow.

And as others have pointed out...this is THE SOAP BOX forum. If you see a topic you don't like, don't freekin read it!

If you outlaw guns, the only ones armed will be the criminals.

[Jake]

Okey so they have two purposes. Geez you must have a lot of moose over there if every .357 is used for moose hunting.

Why not buy a bigger hunting rifle?

Jake

[Kruzin]

You know...as hard as I try, I can't get a hunting rifle to fit into my nightstand....

[Joel]

I'm getting REALLY tired of seeing threads here about American gun control/Freedom of gun ownership.

Seems to me that it has been quite awhile since we have had a thread about gun control.

I think you are taking this a little too personal and since you don't live here I also feel that you can't see it from our prespective. The way we see it gun control only hurts the law abiding citizen. It will never effect the criminal element because they don't abid by the laws anyway.

We have a saying here 'Guns don't kill people, People kill people'.

But the real problem IMO is that we, unfortunately, have a justice system that has gotten to the point that it p***y-foots around with the criminal element too much and doesn't really make them pay for their crimes. But I'm getting off topic here.

Just remeber this is the soap box after all.

Joel

[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 05 October 2000).]

[ALBPM]

Now Now Jake, no need to be insulting....

This thread is for those who don't want their government to take away their rights. It was not meant to be insulting to anyone.

You Jake, were raised in a society which lost these rights years ago and accept it. We are a young nation made up of individuals who don't want to loose those rights.

This is a Soap Box thread, it is in it's proper place and is not posted to insult or flame anyone on a personal basis. It's purpose is to inform those concerned.

You, my friend are out of line with the "Trailer Trash" remark and as Rags has previously stated should avoid this thread if the subject matter offends you so.

I welcome threads with info from other countries and I support Forum members who find their governments oppresive and nonsupportive.

Paul

[Jake]

Well, utopia is pretty much all of Western Europe from my point of view. Not just little Denmark. Population vise, that's about the same as the US (I think).

"Regular people" don't own guns here. We only see them on American TV-shows or at the movies.

We just don't feel that strong a need to arm ourselves.

Jake

[Bixler]

The point, Jake, Gun owner or no, is that we value our freedom over here. You seem to be happy in a culture that is more attuned to social controls where "laws" are passed to coerce people into social norms. That's OK, but not the way it goes over here...at least not yet.

If I have committed no crime, I should have the freedom (and do) to do, say, or own whatever I wish, as long as I do not interfere with another's freedom to do the same. It really is nobody's business.

I've never owned a gun...S**t the things scare me. In fact, I have no problem with registration...but there is NO doubt that this is being correctly seen as only the first step in another abridgement of personal freedom. This is a thing that Yanks hold sacred.

[Jake]

Darn!

It's now 5:47AM local Danish time. And I should have gone to bed HOURS ago. But time flies in good company.

I will admit that I'm not "allknowing". You have shown me that I have many things to learn about the state of the World.

If there is one particuar thing I will remember from this thread, It's the admirable sense of patriotism you all posess. You will defend the basic values of your constitution (your freedom) at any cost. I really admire that.

And I don't think that "normal" Americans like yourselves are a trigger happy bunch, that goes around shooting people for the fun of it.

To improve my limited understanding of the World (and to visit a good friend), I will be going to the US next summer.

Good night everone.

Jake

[dZeus]

Please keep in mind when reading this that I live in a different culture, and that I don't want to offend anyone in this thread. These ideas only represent my current ideas on these issues, and if you have good arguments, I could even change my views

Jake:
you forget to keep i mind that the culture in Europe is quite different from the culture in the USA.
And I think currently the people in this thread are glad because of this difference, either American or European.

Jake and others:
However, I completely agree with you. But in Europe we never had laws that enabled carrying guns. Well... maybe in one or two, but not as far as I know). I also disagree with the freedom stuff in the USA. Everyone can say as much as they want to, as long as they don't limit the freedom of others in their actions.

I think that is dangerous, because you get nazi groups and stuff, where in most of (if not all of) Europe it is forbidden to have any nazi-symphaties, because nazi-symphaties are not based on logical arguments, and will only harm people.

Another point I completely disagree on in this thread: 'Guns don't kill people, People kill people'

I think this is completely short-sighted. If you encounter a 'unstable' person, would you like him/her carrying a gun, or no gun??

I've heard the arguments a couple of times that if there is a gun legislation, these 'unstable' people will get hold of guns anyway. However, I think as long as there is no legislation, you don't even try to get to a gun-free country, which renders this argument useless.

[LAMFDTK]

< !--being text-->Just Another Day with Gun Control</p>

By Jim Houck

Los Angeles, California</p>

The movie I went to see today, at the request of my film managers, was
&quot;Hurricane&quot; starring Denzel Washington. I write feature films. I
write TV ads for the largest advertising agencies on earth for clients like
Toyota, Ford, Sony and Coke. I am the &quot;Hollywood crowd&quot; that the
liberal press lies about so often. </p>

I arrived early at the Torrance, California AMC 20 Theaters, so I bought my
ticket and sat on a bench just outside the front lobby under a palm tree for
about half an hour, enjoying the many different faces, the playing kids, the
adults. </p>

A flood of Californians streamed out suddenly. A young girl had been
attacked by a criminal who had just shot her. </p>

&quot;Is the shooter stopped?&quot; I asked, reaching for my Heckler &amp;
Koch USP .45, running for the lobby with the intent to kill the criminal before
he could injure or kill more of We the People. </p>

&quot;No, nobody can do anything! He's just walking around like he owns the
place!&quot; a California woman cried, trembling like a mouse before the lion.
And indeed, the criminal did. </p>

I ripped up my leather jacket and found my holster missing. I didn't have my
.45 with me today. I'd opted not to take it just this one time at the advice of
the local Californians. Avoid the hassle of the California cops if they
discover it, I thought, save the massive court costs of exercising my right.
&quot;Don't get caught, the street officers will hook you and book you and let
the judges sort it out,&quot; a friend and local California police officer had
told me repeatedly. Besides, it was three in the afternoon next door to Palos
Verdes Estates, one of the most affluent and lowest crime areas in the United
States. My decision to leave my self defense at home very likely cost the young
man who would be shot next his life. I have extensive, combat firearms
training. I've been in three gun battles with criminals in New Orleans and
Miami in the defense of myself twice and a Miami police officer once, and I've
never missed nor have I lost. The criminals did. </p>

Of course the criminal didn't know these things. He didn't know he was in a
&quot;low crime&quot; area and he didn't seem to care that it was three in the
afternoon on a Sunday. All he knew was that he was operating in Senator Diane
Feinstein's wet dream, a theater of perfect Gun Control. Not one citizen in the
large crowd of moms, dads, young men or young women had a firearm with which to
defend themselves. So they ran. But the funny thing is, they didn't run very
fast and they certainly didn't run very far. In fact, many basically hurried
and then stood around and complained about not being able to finish their show.
You see, criminals being in full control is nothing new in California. It's not
news. It didn't excite these folks. </p>

I stopped outside the lobby doors. No gun. No way to fight this criminal, I
thought. </p>

The shooter fired again, dropping a young man next. Well, the California
people voted this idiocy through, they repeatedly elect servants like Diane
Feinstein and Barbara Boxer as state senators, people who take away their
rights to self-defense and the defense of their families, I thought, let them
deal with the consequences of their decisions. Of course the criminal walked
out the back of the AMC 20 Theaters and vanished long before the local police
could wade through the Sunday traffic and do the paperwork. At least they were
nice enough to come. They didn't have to. They responded as a
&quot;courtesy&quot; according to the Supreme Court. They have no legal duty to
protect the individual from criminal assault or murder. Something surprisingly
few people know, especially in California. </p>

I looked at the downed young man. He would die, judging from my own personal
experiences as a shooter of over 20 years and where the criminal had injured
him. The girl, barring very unusual circumstances, she would live, judging from
where the criminal had injured her and her loss of blood. </p>

The police put pressure on the injuries to try and reduce the bleeding from
the criminal attack. Another courtesy service. </p>

I sat back down on the bench and watched the Californians, as they angrily
demanded their ticket money be refunded, the victims of the criminal lying ten
yards from them, moaning, dying. </p>

A man with his wife in the line of angry movie patrons turned to me and
growled, &quot;I'm surprised Feinstein isn't here already. And the liberal
mainstream press. You know, we carry our guns anyway and we didn't bring them
today because it's such a hassle to have to hide them all the time from the
local cops. What a bunch of s-t. Just look at that guy. He's probably going to
die.&quot; </p>

Thanks, Senator Feinstein. As a resident of Florida, in Los Angeles working
on feature film scripts with my L.A. based managers, it's interesting to see
how your Prohibition on self-defense, &quot;Gun Control&quot; works. Of course,
had you been there to see &quot;The Hurricane&quot;, your armed body guards
would have used their semi-automatic, high capacity &quot;assault weapons&quot;
to stop the criminal dead in his tracks, which is what the bastard richly
deserved. Funny, Diane, with all your SB 23's and SB 15's and Prohibition on
self defense, the criminal still badly hurt and perhaps killed two young kids
who just went to see a movie on a quiet Sunday afternoon. Why call it &quot;gun
control&quot;? Why not rename it &quot;defenseless sheep&quot; or &quot;citizen
massacre laws&quot;? Or maybe just simple &quot;B.S.&quot; </p>

Wish you could have been there Diane to see how your idiotic laws work in
real life. It was memorable. < !--end text--></p>

[LAMFDTK]

http://spot.colorado.edu/~tiemann/guns.html

This is the last post here for me I could bring down the server on these Anti-American propaganda lies by the Gun hating crowd.Why does every left-wing gun snatcher have armed body guards? Rosie O'Donald included? Why are they privileged? And the law abiding population is demonized...

[Jammrock]

Jake,

Hvordan gaar det?

The literal translation of the oldest Hebrew text of the Ten Commandments (from what several experts who can read it) says, "You shall not murder." However, not all translations of the Bible have it written that way.

The King James Version, and all version of the English Bible based from that say, "you should not kill." I haven't read the entire Bible in Danish, but I've read a good chunk. From what I remember, the new and the old translation say, "you should not kill." I guess it's just how the translator sees it.

When I was in Denmark I knew quite a few people with guns. They were all members of the self defense force or hunters (which for those not familiar with hunting in Denmark, it's very expensive to hunt, becuase of the licenses and so forth). Plus there are all those weapon stashes in Denmark that keep getting broken into. But I will admit, Denmark is relatively gun free compared to the US.

Guns do play a big part in more societies than the US. Switzerland is the prime example. I'm sure everyone's heard the story so I won't retell it. I don't own any guns, but I do enjoy going out and range shooting every once in a while. Beyond that, never touch the things. But then again, nobody ever messes with me because of my size.

Jammrock

[Gurm]

*sigh*

Jake, I admire your dedication to your higher sensibilities. But you really stepped in the doo-doo this time.

Europe is a wonderful place, I'm sure. However, as many have stated in this thread already... you gave away all your personal freedoms years ago. Whether you FEEL free over there or not, much of Europe is a large socialism of sorts.

Ok. Back to the USA... we have the right to bear arms. We LIKE the right to bear arms. I don't own any guns right now, but I sure as hell know how to use one. And the minute the government tells me I can't have any, I'm going out and buying a dozen.

I too have been in situations where the use of force was necessary. Luckily for me, there was always somebody around who WAS armed to take care of it. On the SUBWAY. In BOSTON. Where it's ILLEGAL to carry your weapon. Yet these people (heroes, in my estimation) risked arrest in order to exercise their right to bear arms. And it's a good thing they did, because they saved at least one life while I watched, and defused several situations which were out of control.

Perhaps when I'm in Europe I will feel safer than I do here. It would be nice. But while I'm still an American living in America, I'll happily tell all the lawmakers EXACTLY where they can put gun control.

- Gurm

------------------
Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Chucky Cheese]

GEE WHIZZ JAKE!!!

Uhhh....i'ved had my hand gun(...45 longslide with laser sighting) since Terminator showed, and NOT ONCE HAS IT JUMPED UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT AND RUN DOWNTOWN AND KILLED ANYBODY !!

why don't you SNAP OUT OF IT! look at the mess australia is in(..firearm related homicide is up 44%), i guess the criminals forgot to turn their guns in.

the founding fathers knew better than anybody that the government could turn out to be the enemy, thats' why we want our guns. the government would not hesitate to use their guns on us...waco, ruby ridge etc.

think about it...

cc

Look for my upcoming, soon to released book, "See Stupid..Now Everything is Illegal!"

[Jake]

Ok, I have reread all the posts in this thread today, to make sure I got all your arguments right.

Guns seem to play a big part in your understanding of personal freedoms. I will not argue with this, as I admit I do not completely understand your cultural heritage. I never had American history in school. It just wasn't available. And as I mentioned earlier I have a friend who emigrated to the US and married a nice girl there. I communicate often with him and we talk about how life is in the states.
Other than that my view of your country is based on what I have seen on TV, read in the
paper and on the Internet.

But how much do you know about my country, let alone European history? I have never felt that my personal freedom was hindered by the fact that we can't carry a gun without a licence (not easily obtained btw.) To say that we lost our sense of real freedom ages ago is just plain silly.

I firmly believe that I live in a democracy where the people govern through a legeslative body elected by the people.

The threefold division of power is rooted in this belief too. (parliament, police and courts). No single entity can rule this country. Our individaul rights are secured in our constitution. Any infringement of these rights WILL be brought before the courts, and the usurpers will be punished. Noone is above the law. And so there is no reason to arm ourselves to avoid abuse of our rights.

From what I have read in this thread, I have seen several statements that advocate the right to bear arms, because you need them to defend yourselves against criminals. Some of you say that the state of affairs in the US are so poor that you have to carry a gun to feel safe on the streets.

If it really is as bad as you say, I understand that gun control is a serious matter to you. Th example of Californian cops only showing up "sometimes" really surprised me. That would be unthinkable here. If someone makes a 911 call here the police HAVE to show up. And if they don't they are directly accountable (they would lose their jobs instantly). In all my life I have never heard of an incident here where someone called the police to report a serious (assult, battering or worse) offense, and they did not show up.

Sorry about the long post. It can be quite difficult to discuss a topic with 10 people at a time.

Regards,

Jake

[This message has been edited by Jake (edited 05 October 2000).]