Its Time! ..Who should be the next President?

[Gurm]

LAMFDTK,

The point isn't the Harry Browne wants drugs to be legal - it's that the Federal Government has NO jurisdiction in the matter. The Constitution nowhere provides for the Feds to make ANY laws about drugs.

Browne wants the states to make their own laws. So in California we'd see legal pot, but I can't see ANY states legalizing all drugs. However, he's right - if drugs were legal (as they were pre-WW2) there would be no problems with drugs. Nobody shot anyone over heroin or cocaine 75 years ago when both were available at the corner drugstore!

But regardless, it's not the government's job to waste our money in a useless war on drugs that they can't possibly ever hope to win.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[LAMFDTK]

"I guess I should have posted the longest thread in this forum because it is obvious that you didn't take the time to read the details of the issues."

Obvious to whom? I know more about Harry Browne than you might think and I DID read the piece JOEL! I read his website for years AAMOF. !

Read what I wrote, Browne will never attract the popular vote on the Drug issue. I agree that it is insane to legalize Drugs. That is my opinion. You might not agree but do not accuse me of not knowing what H.B. is all about.

"Making Your Neighborhood and Your Children Safer by Ending Drug Prohibition"

Enforcing and putting criminals behind bars and making them do the time. Mandatory Drug testing in prison and 3, 12 step meetings a day! One reason the crime rate in down in the U.S. is that the Jails are filled with criminals. Build more. Break the law pay the price. Are drug laws fair? No they need work.
Should the drug laws be reviewed? Yes of course. Is the present system working? Hell no!!! But legal heroin and crack is not the answer.

"We can free up law-enforcement resources to fight violent crime, instead of chasing people who may harm themselves but are no threat to us."

I disagree big time with this! I do not want a society filled with drug users. "No thread to us"? Hardly, Junkies next door is not my idea of great society or community.

"Illegal drugs that today sell for $100 might cost as little as $2 if we legalized them."

There is the insanity of Harry Browne. Lets say I have a drug problem...would I do more or less drugs if they were 2$? And what would that do to the fabric of the American culture to have people in communities all whacked out on pure cheap narcotics?


"And we can make it possible for addicts to seek treatment from doctors without fear of criminal prosecution."

You can do this right now.

"Are we afraid our children would have easier access to drugs?"

Yes! Your case is to make drugs more available and cheaper...Figure it out...

"The available evidence suggests that the rate of drug abuse was much lower when drugs were legal than it is now."

This was before the Grateful Dead! Harry Browne on this issue is dead ass wrong. I want the Drug councils and the assets that are allocated to be reviewed and the whole approach to be change in the War on Drugs. I want treatment and the definitive definition on what an addict is. It is a disease. It is also a crime these days and the system need to be addressed, things are out of hand.

Harry Browne has many great Ideas and I agree with almost all of them, but I cannot support this insane proposal.
http://www.harrybrowne2000.org/stands/drugs.htm

"The point isn't the Harry Browne wants drugs to be legal"
I know the point but it cannot be overlooked.

"if drugs were legal (as they were pre-WW2) there would be no problems with drugs."

Tell that to innocent children who's parents smoke crack

[This message has been edited by LAMFDTK (edited 10 October 2000).]

[LAMFDTK]

http://www.bushdance.com/

[paulcs]

I don't know how things work now, because it's been many, many years since any of this was relevant to me. However, when I was a teenager, it was easier for me to get my hands on illegal drugs than it was to buy alcohol. Although it didn't always happen, I could at least expect to get proofed if I walked into a bar or a liquor store, or if I attempted to buy beer in a supermarket. No drug dealer I ever heard of asked for proof of age.

I'll take a different tacked from the Libertarians. I think certain drugs should be legalized, regulated, and taxed. Right now, the drug trade is the ulimate in free market enterprizes. Ironically, by placing upon it the ultimate regulation, a ban, it is completely unregulated and untaxed. It costs the government millions, maybe billions, to conduct a unwinnable war on drugs and to jail both users and dealers.

Legalize it. Regulate it. Tax it. Require proof of age. Treat drugs like alcohol or cigarettes.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[Joel]

And yeah we may ended up with our drug addicts just like we have our alcoholics now.

Joel

[paulcs]

Too late. They already are.

I'm not saying their wouldn't be some social costs. But I think the benefits of eliminating the drug underground would outweigh the increase in drug use we'd see if certain drugs were legalized. Alcohol use did go up when prohibition was overturned, but very few people would suggest it was a mistake.

I'm not suggesting the legalization of opiates, but I suspect the current legal status of marijuana and other hallucinogens does more harm than good.

I have mixed feelings about cocaine.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[Joel]

I'm like paul here. I don't agree with everything that was outlined concerning this issue, but I do agree that there are some drugs that don't cause anymore harm to the user or the ppl around that user than alcohol or tobacco.

And why not cocaine? It was once used in Coca-Cola is why it got it's name as well as the slogan "Coke adds life".

But the main point overall is less government intrusion into our personal lives.

The things that Bush, Gore, and Buchann propose are going to take money and lots of it. Along with more intrusion into our personal lives. Which is the opposite of Harry Browne and the Libertarian party, whose proposals will cost less money and offers less intrusions into our personal lives. I don't know about you but I think I prefer the latter.

Joel

[Rags]

I am completely against our drug laws. I firmly believe that if your neighbor wants to toke up or take whatever other drugs he has access to, it should be his own personal right to do so. I don't believe laws should attempt to protect us from our own personal choices in life. It's your body, do to it what you please.

Rags

[Joel]

The whole premise behind the Constitution was that you had the right to do whatever you wanted to do as long as it did not infringe upon someone elses rights.

In other words if I want to drive down the road without my seat belt on then that should be my choice. Who am I hurting by doing that?

Joel

[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 11 October 2000).]

[RusCoder]

Its Time! ..Who should be the next President?

Well, Mr.Putin, of course ***cough*** at least, here in Russia.




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Merely this, and nothing more

[Bixler]

Originally posted by Kindness!:

Oh! I have been wondering about the BOOMSTICK thing. I just found what it was. http://shagpro.simplenet.com/Lise/ED/boomstick.wav

Oh! you are so cruel, Kindness. Methinks you have lost the right to your handle. To Out our favorite curmugeon like that. Care to quote the exact source?

Maybe you'll do it for us Ash now that we all know the source.

Masterful....just Masterful.

[LAMFDTK]

FICTION: Al Gore recently claimed that his mother-in-law pays more than $100.00 for the arthritis medicine Lodine; and he claims that his dog takes the same medicine for $37.00, claiming "This is wrong!"

FACT: Gore's aides were quick to apologize for Gore's lie, saying the information was from a Democratic study. Washington newspapers also reported that Al Gore wasn't even sure his mother-in-law was taking any medication and wasn't even sure she had arthritis. And, he doesn't know anything about his dog's "arthritis".

FICTION: Al Gore said his father, a senator, was a champion of civil rights during the 1960's.

FACT: Gore's father voted against the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964 and was a racist who was fond of using the "N" word.

FICTION: Al Gore said that his sister was the very first person to join the Peace Corps.

FACT: By the time Gore's sister joined the Peace Corps, there were already over 100 members.

FICTION: The same sister died of lung cancer years later and Gore vowed to never accept tobacco money as campaign contributions.

FACT: Just four years later, while campaigning for office, Gore spoke to the tobacco industry and said he was one of them because "I've planted it, raised it, cut it, and dried it." He raised over $100,000 in
"reported" contributions.

FICTION: While running for office, Gore's campaign literature claimed he was a "Brilliant Student".

FACT: Washington newspapers said he barely passed Harvard and consistently earned D's and C's.

FICTION: Gore claims an extensive knowledge of law as a result of his extensive study at law school.

FACT: Al Gore dropped out of law school.

FICTION: Gore claimed that his knowledge of God and spirituality came to complete fruition while "finishing" divinity school.

FACT: Al Gore dropped out of divinity school.

FICTION: Al Gore claimed responsibility for inventing the Internet in the 1990's.

FACT : Shocked scientists were quick to speak out, explaining that the Internet had been in widespread use by government and educational institutions since the early 1970's.

FICTION: Al Gore claimed the book "Love Story" was based on his life and Tipper's.

FACT: Author Erich Segal called a press conference to deny his claim. (Couldn't he at least lie about a love story where his sweetheart doesn't die?"

FICTION : Gore claimed that as a reporter for a Nashville newspaper, his stories led to the arrests of numerous corrupt criminals.

FACT: He later apologized for his claim and actually said it was untrue (Also known as lying).

FICTION: Gore claims to increase diversity in the staff that follows him daily, especially among blacks.

FACT: Black members of the Secret Service are suing because they claim they are not being promoted to positions guarding the Vice-President.

FICTION: Al Gore said he was the first to discover the Love Canal nuclear accident.

FACT: The incident was already discovered, being investigated, and covered widely in the press for many months before Gore was aware of it.

FICTION: Gore said just recently that if elected president, he would put harsh sanctions on the sleazy producers of Hollywood's extreme sex and violence.

FACT: Just six days later, Gore attended a fundraiser by Hollywood producers and radical gay activists where he told them that he would only pretend to "nudge them" if elected. He raised over $4 million.

FICTION: Al Gore said he built his Tennessee home with his bare hands.

FACT : Totally false!

FICTION: Al Gore says parents should not have a choice between private and public schools because public schools are far better.

TRUTH : Al Gore attended private school and he has sent his children to private schools.

FICTION: Al Gore remembers his mother lulling him to sleep as a baby by singing the popular ditty, "Wear The Union Label".

FACT: The popular ditty was created by the unions when Gore was 27 years old.

FICTION: Al Gore claimed to co-sponsor the McCain-Feingold Campaign Reform Act.

FACT: The Act was not sponsored until he had been out of office for over a year.

FICTION: Al Gore claims to be instrumental in keeping gas prices low.

FACT: Gore has voted on numerous occasions to raise the tax on gasoline. In his book "Earth In The Balance" Gore claims that the nation's Number One enemy is the internal combustion engine. (That's the motor in your vehicle that gets you to work and takes your kids to school)

FICTION: Gore pretends to champion the rights of poor women to be tested regularly for breast cancer with the most modern technology.

FACT: While giving a speech on the subject in September, Gore didn't know what a mammogram was.

FICTION: AL Gore promised Florida's senior citizens that they would finally have low-cost drugs with no interference from government.

FACT: Gore's plan calls for the creation of a huge federal agency that would tell you which doctor you are allowed to see in order to get the "special rates".

FACT: Al Gore told NBC's Lisa Meyers that he had never told a lie. When Meyers pressed harder, "You've never told a lie?!" Gore said, "Not that I know of."

[Joel]

If you are going to make those kinds of statements about anyone then you should indicate your sources, otherwise it is just your word with no credibility.

And a vote for Buchanan is a vote for Al Gore because it takes away from the vote for George Bush and no matter how much we dislike it there are only two candidates that even have a chance of winning and Buchanan isn't one of them.

Joel

[LAMFDTK]

<img src="http://www.cbn.org/imagesD/gorelies-1.jpg" width="168" height="148" border="2">

40 reasons to say NO to Gore
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/jacoby.html

Al Gore's Lies http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/gorelies.htm

WHY GORE LIES http://www.nypostonline.com/postopin...ists/12880.htm

Lies, damn lies and Gore http://www.suntimes.com/output/neal/neal111.html

A Pack of Political Lies? http://www.cbn.org/Newsstand/stories/001012.asp
http://www.timesfreepress.com/2000/o...ittrivial.html

More Fuzzy Math? http://abcnews.go.com/sections/polit...ng_001006.html

Ignoring Gore’s lies:
Why doesn’t TV news report them? http://www.theunionleader.com/articl...l?article=9762

If Al Gore lies about grandma's medicine, how else will he fib? http://www.triblive.com/news/news_st...1c2c6e32fef58c

Gore's struggle
with the truth http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky...res_stru.shtml

Gore's Outrageous Fibs: Lies or Memory Loss? http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecov...00/9/30/154547





[This message has been edited by LAMFDTK (edited 14 October 2000).]

[Joel]

Boy, did that help your case. Commentaries, Editorals, Opinion Post. There was only one there that was not someones opinion. I think one of them summed it up the best when it said,
Claim: A collection of alleged "lies" from Al Gore.
Status: Some accurate, some not.

Then again if I dug around the net enough I could find just as much on Buchanan, but I have better things to do.

Joel