Its Time! ..Who should be the next President?

[LAMFDTK]

You Socialists! Leftwing Commie lovin' Pinko Red lovin' poor excuses for the title of American Citizen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

hehehhh

The Star investigation costs 45 million if I have to find the link that proves this it will cut into my PJB defensive Internet campaign time.

That was about the cost as one of those missiles that he lobbed into that aspirin factory when he was wagging the dog.

The sex with the intern and the "under oath" lies that he committed was no the whole story but the cover-up and the misuse of the office that he was elected to was the big picture.

Since some of you are Gore supporters it is clear that Lies are not a problem for you. You candidate does nothing but. Just what we need as President.

I should be reviewing hardware but I am here spewing spiel instead

God bless the Dress!

[Joel]

But they also spent 45 million investigating his wife for her supposed part in the White Water deal.

You Socialists! Leftwing Commie lovin' Pinko Red lovin' poor excuses for the title of American Citizen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I sure hope you meant that as a joke.

Joel

[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 06 October 2000).]

[Thundrchez]

The Libertarian Party's webpage is http://www.lp.org/

BTW, why does it seem that only crooks run for office? Do decent people not want to take a job where all of their colleagues are lying, thieving crooks?

[LAMFDTK]

"If U.S. Jewry takes the clucking appeasement of the Catholic cardinalate as indicative of our submission, it is mistaken. When Cardinal O'Connor of New York seeks to soothe the always irate Elie Wiesel by reassuring him, 'there are many Catholics who are anti-Semitic...it's deep within them,' when he declares this 'is not a fight between Catholics and Jews,' he speaks for himself. Be not afraid, Your Eminence; just step aside, there are bishops and priests ready to assume role of defender of the faith."

What was this all about? The proposed Carmelite convent at Auschwitz. He was defending the rights of the Catholic Church to erect a Covent near Auschwitz. Seems like someone had a problem with Catholics here….
O’Connor’s statement is out of line. Is the word Jewry offensive? Can you imagine why it would be wrong to have a Carmelite convent near Auschwitz? I don’t; But PJB thought that O’Connor was out of line in his pandering and Apologizing for the Catholics. I do too. PJB defends his faith and for that can be admired.

"Hitler's success was not based on his extraordinary gifts alone. His genius was an intuitive sense of the mushiness, the character flaws, the weakness masquerading as morality that was in the hearts of the statesmen who stood in his path."

Here is a statement take out of context to PROVE that Buchanan loves Hitler. That is far from the truth. Did Hitler have extra ordinary gifts? Yes of course he did. He would have been a failed painter if he didn’t. Stalin had them too and so does William Jefferson Clintoon. As far as mushiness, the character flaws…this is how he buried his opposition. It worked right?

"Those of us in childhood during the war years were introduced to Hitler only as caricature. ... Though Hitler was indeed racist and anti-Semitic to the core, a man who without compunction could commit murder and genocide, he was also an individual of great courage, a soldier's soldier in the Great War, a political organizer of the first rank, a leader steeped in the history of Europe, who possessed oratorical powers that could awe even those who despised him."

You left this one out Comrade Paul! What is “mistruth” here? Any part here that is a Lie? I guess you need the whole piece not just the ripped section. Poor judgment on PJB part to even state a fact about Hitler or even to mutter his name. I wonder of PJB’s insistent to be fearless of writing about or making any kind of reference of Hitler or anything else that he wants to. I guess that is why I admire him he's got balls. But to take a statement like this one and use it to PROVE that PJB is a Nazi and an “Admirer” of Hitler is a Nazi tactic that Hitler would be proud of. Goble was a master at this…

During the war, the underground government of the Warsaw Ghetto reported to London that the Jews of Treblinka were being electrocuted and steamed to death. The Israeli court, however, concluded that the murder weapon for 850,000 was the diesel engine from a Soviet tank, which drove its exhaust into the death chamber. All died in 20 minutes, Finkenstein swore in 1945. The problem is: Diesel engines do not emit enough carbon monoxide to kill anybody. In 1988, 97 kids, trapped 400 feet underground in a Washington, DC tunnel while two locomotives spewed diesel exhaust into the car, emerged unharmed after 45 minutes
One of the Left’s favorite passages to say that PJB believes that the Holocaust never happened. This is far from the truth. This Quote is an attempt to show that the facts against this innocent man were being fabricated to prove his guilt by the Israeli court contradicting reports of other means of termination. These facts are open to debate. Why no mention that this was a huge international story at the time, and PJB was the only one asking questions. And the only one that was right? I guess it’s hard to believe in “Innocent until proven guilty.” Instead of praise for his exposure of the injustice PJB is a called NAZI.
The tie-in is this Quote by Jamie R. McCarthy) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 18:06:04 GMT http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people...olumn.0390.002

Which uses Guilt by association and fabrication to box in PJB:

In short, it looks suspiciously like Mr. Buchanan received a
Holocaust-denial newsletter in the mail and, accepting its claims as
true, reprinted them in his nationally-syndicated column.
How about you look suspiciously like a liar?


There were no politics to polarize us then, to magnify every slight. The 'negroes' of Washington had their public schools, restaurants, bars, movie houses, playgrounds and churches; and we had ours." This is a true statement, though rather offensive out of context. I wish the article that is ripped from was posted

I like Gurms Quote: “And your assertions that perhaps Buchanan wasn't as bad as I made out bothered me.”

First off you your assertion were not your own they were made for you. I hope you know that. By checking these smear sites that lack anything but distortions and half truths is no way to check out a persons character. I guess you can build a case against anyone who has written the millions of words in his lifetime like PJB if you use these methods. I guess if you do not agree with the special interest groups of the day you can be labeled just about anything.

How was this guy employed byTed Turner all these years? I guess Reagan was a Nazi also? I guess he was scolded by Nixon in China for “Opening his mouth” and bashing the communists because he was a Nazi? Did you see the Republican convention speech in 82? Have you read any of his books or ever learned anything about the man on your own that wasn’t smear? Is Alan Dershowitz a credible source of character? Its perfect that Sheeples minds are told what to believe and they believe it noquestionsasked! Perfect Nazism.

Disagree with Buchanans positions and policy, but branding him a Nazi is Nazi

[This message has been edited by LAMFDTK (edited 06 October 2000).]

[This message has been edited by LAMFDTK (edited 06 October 2000).]

[LAMFDTK]

My post was ruined by MS word HTML editor! It looks like hell
Enough of this defensive posturing! Time for issuse and 1000+ posts because we care!

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I sure hope you meant that as a joke.
Joel
_________________________________________

All but the Pinko

[Gurm]

If the fella isn't Ivan the terrible because he was somewhere else, that's fine. If you claim he wasn't Ivan the terrible because the Nazi gas chambers didn't exist, that's NOT fine.

Jewry is a slur. Period. If I say "I'm sick and tired of the whites of America pandering to simpering negresses" that's a slur too. Plain and simple.

And opening ANY kind of convent near Auschwitz is about a tasteless as it gets.

Buchanan has also referred to our government as "owned by Jews", "Israeli-dominated", and other anti-semitic slurs. He has claimed that people are SPYING for the Israelis in the white house - Hillary Clinton among them.

My original thoughts were an amalgamation of what I read in the news, yes. My thoughts now are of suspicion and mistrust of a man whose imagery, tone, and wording remind me of post-war Nazis. Period.

At first, it was "all the people in power have been pushing you down". Then it was "hey, the Jews have money. They MUST have power. THEY've been pushing you down."

Then it was "we're not gonna let those damn JEWS push us down ANY MORE!"

Then it was "We're gonna make things RIGHT by taking things BACK from the Jews!"

Then it was "Jews don't deserve to have stuff."

Then it was "Jews don't deserve to live here."

Then it was "Jews don't deserve... TO LIVE."

---------------------------

Where am I going with this? The very first pieces of anti-semitic propagandizing over the past 2000 years - not just by Hitler and his Nazis but also by the Inquisitors, the Russians, and the many others who have persecuted the Jews - are always of the "those damn Jews are running everything" variety - when it JUST ISN'T TRUE.

Is it so wrong that as a race they are hardworking and thrifty? Apparently so. Because time and time again the rallying cry is "those damn Jews took all our money and good jobs and power".

And this is what I hear Mr. Buchanan saying:

"Our government is owned by Jews."

"Our congress is dominated by Israelis."

"Israelis are spying on us, via the first lady and cabinet members."

"The Catholic Church (don't hate-mongers ALWAYS hide behing the Catholic Church?) has been pandering to the Jewry long enough. If they won't take action, WE WILL."

-------------------------------

The man's an anti-semite. You can try to say that it's out of context if you like.

But you won't find out-of-context remarks in his speeches that say that Polacks were bad, or Italians, or Hindus. Nope, just JEWS. And blacks. (WHY OH WHY are Jews and Blacks always lumped together? Both of them are sick of it by now...)

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[LAMFDTK]

"Our government is owned by Jews."

"Our congress is dominated by Israelis."

"Israelis are spying on us, via the first lady and cabinet members."

"The Catholic Church (don't hate-mongers ALWAYS hide behing the Catholic Church?) has been pandering to the Jewry long enough. If they won't take action, WE WILL."

-------------------------------

The man's an anti-semite. You can try to say that it's out of context if you like.
________________________________________

It is and you know it. Very "James Carvelle of you GURM. Disinformation to make your point. Why stop there ? How about fake .JPG's of PJB in a Stuka?
_______________________________________
I myself am not selective in being critical of people. I dole it out when I see fit and try to have a good basis for my comments. I also try and practice tolerance and understanding for all people.
LAMFDTK is a Right Wing Christian Conservative NASCAR, Rock&Roll Cracker,Trailer Park Trash Harmonica Playing, Guitar pickin',Golfer and Buchanan supporting NJ Guy. With a G400max (in my kids box of course!)

[Joel]

You know we really do have a great country.

Where else but in America can a republican led campaign againist the first family be allowed to spend about 90 million dollars, of taxpayers money, only to catch the president in a lie about a blowjob.

Joel


[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 06 October 2000).]

[Gurm]

Please, just humor me, ok?

Demonstrate, in as many sentences as you need, how to make "our government is owned by Jews" NOT an anti-semitic statement. Please.

Oh, the only rule is you aren't allowed to preface it with "Wanna hear a joke?", nor are you allowed to end with "just kidding!".

I don't care about the context. If I say "golly, I hate how those niggers always ruin everything" it's offensive and bigoted. Period. There IS NO CONTEXT in which it's acceptable, unless you happen to be Chris Rock and you are on HBO.

- Gurm

P.S. And since we're being forthcoming, I'm a preppie, yuppie, white, Jewish, disillusioned, highly-educated 20-something. I like German cars, German beer, German wine, but not German women (ahem!). I love my rock 'n' roll (hey, speaking of which, have ya heard Rammstein yet? They're from Germany!), play my guitars LOUD, and I'm not ashamed to admit that I cried at the end of Beauty and the Beast - EVERY DAMN TIME I WATCHED IT (14 in the theater).

------------------
Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Joel]

Hey Thundrchez,

Thanks for that link to the Libertarian Party's website. I found some very good reading there. I really like their overall ideas on personal responibility. In other words you are responsible for your actions so therefore you are accountable for those actions. I also like the fact that they feel that the government should also abid by that same principal. Which is something I have felt strongly about for many years but neither one of the major two parties ever showed it. Glad to see that there is a party out there that feels the same way.

Joel

[Thundrchez]

You're welcome. I don't toe the line to 100% of what the Libertarian party platform stands for, but it is a heck of a lot closer to what I believe than the platform of the big 2 parties. I've been a card carrying Libertarian for about 4 years now.

[paulcs]

I intentionally cut and pasted selected sections of Pat Buchanan's comments. I strongly suspected much time and effort would be given to searching, cutting, and pasting "into context" Mr. Buchanan's quotes. The followers of extremist tinhorn demagogues are so easily led and mislead.

I knew that Mr. Buchanan's quotes, "in context" and annotated, would still expose him as a right wing extremist.

Fascism and the collapse of the Weimar Republic are both topics which really fascinated me a couple of years ago. What disturbs me in particular about Mr. Buchanan's quote about Hitler is not his praise of the monster's oratory, military strategy, or leadership skills, but this one line: "His genius was an intuitive sense of the mushiness, the character flaws, the weakness masquerading as morality that was in the hearts of the statesmen who stood in his path."

I have to assume Mr. Buchanan was referring to the Social Democrats, Hitler's primary political opposition, who were forced from the Reichstag through means most undemocratic. He may also be talking about Hitler's sometime coalition partners, the despicable Communists, who would later be taught the harshest of lessons in "rule or ruin" politics. He may or may not be refering to the Chancellor's intellectual and journalist critics, whom, I believe, the Sturmabteilungen were set loose on.

In any case, the *mushy and flawed* SPD legislators were kept, by force, from key votes by Nazi thugs waiting for them at the doors. The Weimar constitution would be nullified, democracy in Germany destroyed, and the world would pay for Hitler's "intuitive sense of the mushiness, the character flaws, the weakness masquerading as morality that was in the hearts of the statesmen who stood in his path."

To respond directly to LAMF's question to "Comrad Paul," there is where the lie lies, and it's a big one. It is part and parcel of The Big Lie. (Notice how I deftly avoided using "Herr LAMF." )

The issue of the Carmelite convent at Auschwitz was a tragedy of misunderstanding, based in religious and cultural differences. To Catholics, who practice a religion based upon the concepts of sin and redemption, places where great evil took place can take on a holy significance. To Jews, evil places are just that: evil places. Certainly not a place for a convent. If memory serves me correctly, the Polish Primate just made things worse and the behavior of some Catholics in Poland was disgusting. The Vatican was *not* pleased.

Mr. Buchanan's comments were horrifically insensitive and *intentionally* inflamatory. ("...when [Cardinal O'Connor] declares this 'is not a fight between Catholics and Jews,' he speaks for himself. Be not afraid, Your Eminence; just step aside, there are bishops and priests ready to assume role of defender of the faith." What a jerk.)

"Jewry" IS both archaic and a slur. I haven't heard it without "Soviet" in front of it in years. It IS kind of like using the word "negress"--the sort of thing that should make all thinking people in cringe. But we're not talking about thinking people here, are we? Buchanan's is a populist movement filled with thugs and buffoons who wonder if Hitler was talking about NASCAR when he spoke of the master race.

Calling southern centrist Democrats "Socialists" (with a capital "S" for Pete's sake!) is just a flimsy attempt to move the center further (much further!) to the right for the purpose of mainstreaming extremist right wing views.

I admit it. I have some socialist leanings. But to imply that I am a communist, even in half-jest, is just more of the same. And I am not a liar. Again, I knew Pat Buchanan's comments would hold up to the fascist minimum when "put into context." I am not anti-Catholic. I am Catholic (in an agnostic kind of way). Pat Buchanan is Catholic as well. I understood what was happening during that mess in Poland and so did he. His attempts to further inflame the situation in the US were just the worst kind of cynical demagoguery.

I don't believe Mr. Buchanan is a Nazi. I do think he is a fascist. But I doubt even he would describe New Jersey as "left wing." I guess the only way to mainstream Pat Buchanan is to move to the right of him.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[This message has been edited by paulcs (edited 07 October 2000).]

[Gurm]

Thank you, Paul. My debate skills have suffered somewhat in the last several years. I really need to brush up.

*sigh*

I can, however, back you up on a couple of things:

- Religious differences. Yes, to Jews the concentration camps and other evil places remain evil. It's not a religious thing so much as a cultural thing. We have no cultural and religious mechanism for the sort of cleansing that Catholics embrace wholesale every Sunday.

- Err... I forgot the other thing. It's 1AM and I'm going to bed.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[LAMFDTK]

"the weakness masquerading as morality that was in the hearts of the statesmen who stood in his path."

I belive he is refering to Churchill.

As far as calling PJB an extremist tinhorn demagogue (tinhorn?) are concerned what would that make AlGORE? A man with no core beliefs that lies on a daily basis and cross dresses like Reagan on national TV?

Buchanan's is a populist movement filled with thugs and buffoons:<IMG SRC="http://205.252.89.138/trail/100400.endorsedbyjoannemcoskerandrosalindmcgeheart y.jpg" WIDTH="250" HEIGHT="188" ALT="" BORDER="0">

"Calling southern centrist Democrats "Socialists" (with a capital "S" for Pete's sake!) Excuuuuuuuse me Mr.Ratburn

But I doubt even he would describe New Jersey as "left wing" It is, but that is another thread.

[Joel]

Hey LAMFDTK and Gurm,

Since we definitely know how y'all feel about Al Gore, based on y'alls slanderous and defamatory(look it up ) comments, why don't y'all tell us how y'all feel about George Bush, or Harry Browne, or any of the other presidential candidates, besides Pat Buchannan.

Joel


[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 07 October 2000).]