AAaaarrrgggghh I wish I was a mechanic

[Bixler]

Pit:

Better only due to wet weather.

Get the Damn leak fixed...or at the very least document your problem better than on this forum for warranty purposes.

I know nothing about Renaults, but leaking gaskets on Aluminum blocks are notorious. I work in the recycling business, and we grind up far more aluminum block cars as scrap and at a much earlier age just for this issue.

Did your little car ever run hot?? Even one event of this sort can cause warpage that NEEDS REPAIR!!

[The PIT]

As for the wet weather it's dry for the last few days and it's still running fine. Three garages checked it one found a fault (first one) two didn't I've checked the same way first one did and didn't find anything either.

[Bixler]

The good thing about mechanical systems (cars) is that there is ALWAYS an ultimate answer. If it's running fine now, in the absence of other variables, I'd refer to the posts above about the lambda sensor and assume that your problem is SILICON based.

In an ideal world (Heh!) there would be no digital control of a purely mechanical system unless you control EVERYTHING about the environment in which the digital system operates.

Impossible in the real world. Cars are mechanical systems.

If it is an intermittent problem, look to systems that operate intermittently-> silicon. (Some computer or digitally controlled parameter)

[SCompRacer]

The PIT, I hope your not serious...you don't really want to be a mechanic now, do you? I have been doing it for 29 years and I would like you to reconsider....

Of course we are called technicians now, whether some of us deserve the title or not...

If you suspect an intake leak, attach a length of vacumn hose to a propane torch that you have removed the torch nozzle. Crack open the valve a bit and direct the hose around the intake where it attaches to the head. If there is a leak, the propane will be sucked in and noticably smooth the idle.
Vacumn lines and hoses, injector o rings (if applicable) are all suspect. Vacumn power brake chambers (if so equipped) can leak intermittently too.

If it comes and goes, check manifold bolts for torque. Other than other reasons mentioned, loose bolts are one cause of intake gaskets sucking in.
The list goes on and on.

Or you can spray carb cleaner all over the engine and if it ignites, back off and... Never mind, don't check for a vacumn leak this way.


[This message has been edited by SCompRacer (edited 15 November 2000).]

[Bixler]

To any and all techs out there!

How many times have you found the "problem" to be a mechanical one, vs. some ethereal digital or transistor-based problem.

Case in point: I'd hazard a guess that 1/3 of all "bad board" problems relate directly back to a cold solder joint, or a heat related problem that is easily corected by mechanical means.

My entire home stereo system is built on people-with-too-much-money-who-throw-away-their-stuff-that-doesn't-work-right-and-they-don't-know-why.

It has been a good deal for me and my trusy soldering iron.

The Pit...you have my sympathies...I wish you well.

Mechanics are commonly the scum of the earth, and if you find one you can trust, you MUST attach yourself to him forever and slavishly follow his advice for life--no matter what the cost.

[Rags]

Okay now here we go again with judging people by their profession. I totally disagree with the notion that you can judge a person by what they do for a legal living.

Let's get something straight. It's not easy to repair automobiles anymore. This isn't 1969 anymore, and there is no such thing as a simple auto, and there is definitely a much wider variety of cars to work on. With each different make of car, comes a different theory of Electrical/Electronic/Fuel/Air Induction/Suspension-Steering/Emission Control, etc. It is expected of technicians of today to know each one of these systems inside-out, diagnose the first time, repair the vehicle timely, and do the work right the first time. Most Techs work off of some sort of "Flat-Rate", where they get paid depending on how long a job "should" take. This means that a guy/gal working in a shop must be able to diagnose an obscure fuel injection problem properly in about an hour or under, make a determination on the best route to repair, prepare a fair estimate, perform repairs, check repairs, and test drive thoroughly to confirm the diagnosis was correct all within the time alotted. Then he may have to work on a rear differential afterwards, and is expected to do all these repairs within flatrate time, or else he starves. Then you have the public who overall know absolutely nothing about how cars work, and expect everything to be simple, cheap, fast, accurately. If one of these things fail to meet his/her expectation, then the tech/shop is unqualified/crooked/overpriced/slow/incompetent.

I think the general public needs to wise up. Are there some shady techs out there? Sure, but they don't last long at any one place, believe me. Stay away from the places that would be more prone to employee turnover: Franchise Repair Shops, etc. And before deciding on a place to repair your vehicle, do some research including talking with the techs themselves and find out how long they have been working there. If you ever doubt a diagnosis, get a second opinion, it will cost you but it's peace of mind.

Rags

[Bixler]

Rags:

Of course you are correct.

If Car repairmen were trained in proportion to the knowlege required, there would be a whole different situation.

Unfortunately, this isn't so. Which is why I said that if you for any reason actually FIND such a competent mechanic, he is to be cherished and trusted completely for life.

This relates directly to why I am a Matrox fan. This is the first company where I found honest, realistic, and responsive support. I could care less which card has the last FPS...I know that with this organization, I will get support, or answers. If I trust a mechanic who says "here is why this engine is a piece of **** and should be replaced"...at least I'm getting an answer.

That means more than anything else to me.

[SCompRacer]

As far as scum goes, I have had some customers that fell into that category.

Had an underhood type service shop for a couple of years till I opted to go back into fleet work as the patience required to deal with about 15-20% of people was quickly fading.

No matter what questions you asked "there were no problems with car, just decided it needed a tune up." Big mistake to do anything until you stuck a four gas probe up the tailpipe and scanned the computer for codes. Tune it first and "ever since you tuned it, it fails emissions testing, or it doesn't start in morning, or..."

Or they show for an appointment and don't shut the car off and even offer to drive it in for you. One of my guys drove a car in that was running, shut it off and the car would not restart. "What did you do to my car?"

"Why do you need diagnosis time, those machines tell you everything thats wrong with the car!"

"You put the wrong spark plug into my car!" No sir, that plug has been discontinued by GM and this is the replacement number...here it is in the AC Catalog." "I don't care, I want this number in there!"

Ask them if it runs rough in the rain. "Oh no." Spray the plug wires with a mist of water from a spray bottle and it runs rough or dies, indicating bad plug wires. "What did you do to my car?"

"Ever since you worked on my car the tape player doesn't work."

So there are dishonest people on both sides. Your training in proportion to knowledge needs to include a degree in Psychology as well as law these days.

[Rags]

Some of my favorites:
C=customer, R=repair shop
C-"you changed my oil two weeks ago, now my check engine light is on, you are going to fix whatever you f'ed up"

C-"my car's wipers turn on when I push in the cig. lighter, and the alarm goes off by itself at times"
R-"The diagnosis starts with a base of 1Hr, which includes visual, basic, and scan testing. If nothing is pinpointed from these tests, additional time will be needed and charged accordingly"
C-"What???? You expect me to pay for you to just tell me what's wrong with my car? Just hook it up to your computer and tell me what's wrong, I am not paying just to have you look at it"
R-"Dr. ****(actual name not included here), you charge people to make an appointment at your office, correct? Then you charge them for lab tests, correct?"
C-"Uhh...yeah...but that's different, I have my own practice, pHD, yada yada yada"
R-"Our price is 55 dollars an hour, will you be paying with cash or credit card?"

C-"My car is making a noise while driving"
R-"What kind of noise, where is it coming from, and when does it do it"
C-"it's a loud noise coming from my car while driving"

C-"My Service Engine Soon light is on."
R-"We checked it out, and found that the light was caused by a gross leak in your evap. emissions system, we found that you had your gas cap loose. We charge an hour at 55 dollars an hour for diagnosis, and didn't charge you for tightening your gas cap, and fixing a pinched return line, your bill is 55 dollars"
C-"55 dollars???? For tightening a gas cap??? what kind of operation are you running here? You guys are out of your minds!"

C-"My car dies intermittantly, how much do you charge to fix it?"
R-"For us to start diagnosis, it is 1 hr at 55/ hr, then we charge 55/hr for repairs and additional diagnosis plus parts"
C-"I am NOT paying for any diagnosis, my brother told me it is my ignition module, and is no big deal to repair"
R-"Do you want us to put an ignition module on? It will cost you 1.5 hrs and 125 for the part, and will not guarantee it fixes your dying problem."
C-"I want you to fix it properly, that's what I want!!"
R--"For us to start diagnosis, it is 1 hr at 55/ hr, then we charge 55/hr for repairs and additional diagnosis plus parts"

Oh, there are many more. These are actual happenings I have witnessed in the last month.

Rags

[Bixler]

Rags:

I'll repeat again, an honest, competent, knowledgable, professional auto mechanic is someone to be cherished and trusted for life. And the biggest reason there are so many unscrupulous ones is because it is so EASY to perform unneeded repairs or shotgun the problem by replacing half an engine.

I'd gladly pay you the diagnostic charge...in fact, it should be a savings if this allows you to pinpoint the problem and get the work done. I've got a feeling that if you're any good at what you do, you've got all the work you can handle anyway.

My main rant has to do with the general conduct and policy of franchise shops...and you know what I mean, cause I bet a large number of your customers come from first pulling it into the local midas or wal-mart.