OK this is just sick!!!! US people what are you doing?

[SteveC]

<ug>

[This message has been edited by SteveC (edited 01 June 2001).]

[Rags]

He's saying that shit happens. Shit happens everywhere. It's how we deal with it that counts.

Rags

[ahartman]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> How about the good parent who tried extremely hard but the kid who still hung out with the wrong people, continued down the path with drugs and such? You could debate this over and over, the point he was trying to make is, if you came down to that choice, you'd be a liar if you chose #2.</font>

Dave, I disagree. Any parent who would be willing to submit their child to a prison beating or rape FOR ANY REASON is a sick son of a bitch and should be instantly sterilized and lose any parenting rights.

Am I for scared-straight programs? Read my original post - I said ALL kids should be made to go thru them.

Gurm took it one step further and said "ahh, what's a little molestation if they become scared of jail". THAT'S what I find so offensive.

Gurm, show me something that says that MOST Americans want a missle shield. Show me where it says MOST Americans want us drilling for oil in Alaska. Show me where it says MOST Americans want this tax cut.

They're all POLITICAL issues, not popular social issues. Please stop stating your opinion as fact.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> No, it is NOT acceptable behavior for ANYONE to run up to you on the street, grab your ass, and make crude sexual comments </font>

But it's acceptable for a parent to ALLOW their child to be molested/beaten in hopes it'll frighten them not to commit crimes.

Your logic amazes me.

Oh well, I'm done with this... Like all things, you refuse to believe there's a side other than yours that just MAY be right.

[Electric Amish]

Obviously we're strip-searching children in prison!

What's it to ya', you writing a book??

amish

[Electric Amish]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">She's really a she</font>

Of course (s)he is, if (s)he's a transsexual.

amish

edit- whoa! Jord's quick on the "delete"...

[This message has been edited by Electric Amish (edited 01 June 2001).]

[Gurm]

Exactly.

I know you'd like to think that there are no juvenile delinquents in Finland. But, having met quite a lot of Finns, I know that to be untrue (I'm 1/4 Finnish, btw).

It would also be nice to believe that nobody ever gets murdered ANYWHERE except the US. That also isn't true.

And yes, it's how you deal with it that counts. We hope to never have to get to the point where we would use a gun, or force our kids to go through a tough-love program.

But once at that point, a decision has to be made. My point is, don't make assumptions based on your life experiences. And don't assume that WE aren't as GOOD as YOU.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Guru]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Electric Amish:
edit- whoa! Jord's quick on the "delete"...
</font>

I saw it to!

No (s)he (sorry Jord I am only kiding) propably just realised he used the wrong smilie!


[This message has been edited by Guru (edited 01 June 2001).]

[SteveC]

nah, I'm just leaving unrelated matters to this discussion out of the thread...

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Cheers,
Steve

"Life is what we make of it, yet most of us just fake"

[Gurm]

Ok, perhaps you misinterpreted me Mr. Hartman...

I didn't advocate organized rape of children. By "molestation" I meant what these kids supposedly endured - seeing the prisoners touching themselves, being stripsearched and perhaps groped.

Sorry for the confusion.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Electric Amish]

Unfortunately, Steve, that was the most interesting part of the thread.

amish

[Jorden]

I deleted my post, and asked Steve to do so as well, for it was more of a bash against Steve, which I didn't think would be appropriate in this thread

Jord.

btw, Steve

[HollyBerri]

Well for one thing, Gurm, <u>everyone</u> does not know you, and most of us are forced to rely on "how" you say things in order to understand what you "mean".

Especially if English is not their first language.

Second, yes, I know bad things happen here. Dutch people can do stupid things, too, and that can cause great tragedy. But the point is that they do not seem to occur in such great quantity, or at such a high level of vicious anger.

A little story: Sunday before last, apparently a guest at our downstairs neighbor's threatened a man who lives across the street-- the victim was Turkish, which is a bit of a problem here.

The victim and about 30 of his friends came to our building to.... "talk about it". I'm from NYC, so having some 30 men and women angry over a racist insult gathered in front of the building's front door had me pretty alarmed.

But they never tried to come in, despite the fact that they must have known the front door is not locked.

And as I watched, one of the children got a brick from our neighbor's yard (they were building a decorative wall) and offered it to the victim.... who quite firmly told him to put it back where he got it from. There was a lot of yelling, but no shots were fired (although I think at least one person was armed), no windows were broken and no punches were thrown (despite the offer of a "man-to-man" dukefest to settle the issue).

The police solved the problem by taking the guest to his own home (after their second visit), and the crowd dispersed peacefully.

Our upstairs neighbor was mentally ill (under treatment, I'm not dissing him) and was in fact rather dangerous, but even when he was throwing things around his apartment or off the terrace, he never broke the windows. (He was eventually arrested, we think, which was a good thing. Don't miss him at all.)

I understand that in the US one lives in abnormally constant personal danger, and that the country takes all kinds of "draconian" measures to put an end to that. What you seem to have a hard time with is that people in other places do not live with such an environment of danger "anytime, anyplace", and thus find it bizarre that 1) it exists in the first place and 2) it is so difficult to abolish.

Third, the incident you describe (of the person running up to you, etc.) is socially unacceptable whether they ask you why you hate them because they're gay or whether they ask you if you've accepted Jesus Christ as your personal saviour. The gay thing is just the excuse for the poor behavior, and if it wasn't that it would be something else.

Oh and just to settle the question and keep it from distracting everyone by forcing them to delete or edit their posts, I didn't make a mistake with my smilies, I'm bisexual. Nothing to hide or be ashamed of, but also nothing that needs further discussion on the forums.

Klaar?

------------------------------------
Holly

[Guru]

Well how often did you see things like this in TV ovoer here in Finland?:

• gangs, either intentionally or unintentionally;
• people who wanted revenge on their boss and so killed 10 other people as well;
• jilted lovers who shot the former object of their affection;
• "nationalists";
• terrorists;
• children who got their parent's gun and had an accident;
• children who got a gun and shot up their schoolmates;
• people who shot someone to get closer to an unattainable object (that object being Jodie Foster or John Lennon, respectively);
• cops;
• predjudiced people (gay-bashers, racists, sexists who feel a woman is getting "out of hand");
• people who want vengeance on the predjudiced person;
• religious fanatics.

And I have never said that I am bether then you in any way!

[HollyBerri]

Guru, hate to say, but I doubt that the Americans on the forums have seen many Finnish news broadcasts . In fact I have not seen any either, so you'll have to be the expert on what kinds of things are reported there.

But I can compare the content of the news broadcasts I lived with for 37 years in New York City with the ones I've watched for a year here in the Netherlands. I must say it's nice to be able to watch the news again, because I no longer see things like in that list now that I live here.

Or were you talking to someone else, as I never said anything about anyone being better than anyone?

-----------------------------
Holly

[Jorden]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by HollyBerri:
Guru, hate to say, but I doubt that the Americans on the forums have seen many Finnish news broadcasts . In fact I have not seen any either, so you'll have to be the expert on what kinds of things are reported there.</font>

I can say for once that we don't have Finish TV here in Holland, so I have to side with Holly

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">But I can compare the content of the news broadcasts I lived with for 37 years in New York City </font>

You watched news being aged 1, Holly?
Gosh...

Jord.