Announcement

**Pace** · 13 September 2001, 05:40

Mine's is bigger than yours?

Today (or any day for that matter) is not a day for comparing countries etc, it's a day for working out how to live peacefully.

I'm just home and glad to see everyone getting along like we should

P.

**cjolley** · 13 September 2001, 06:38

I can tell you about a country that came to the aid of America at great personal and institutional risk : Canada
In the 1979 when Iran took the American diplomats hostage Canadian diplomats and their families risked their own lives and freedom to smuggle a large group of Americans out of Iran under the noses of Iranian "authorities".
I pray that Canada never finds it's self in circumstances that put it at that kind of risk, but if they do, I hope and assume that America will be there to step up to the plate for our friends to the north.

chuck

**KvHagedorn** · 13 September 2001, 07:33

4) MoonTrip. The biggest andvances of the rocketry of american history was got from the Naziz after WW II. They had a working missile whoms developer after that helped the Moon projcet .. ( this actually is what i remember, might be wrong, the part that he worked with the moon project.. ). Sure a great achievement, but dont think all was done by US alone... this race was EAST vs WEST.

Since you seem to need help, I, the idiot, can fill you in.. his name was Werner von Braun. He took his team west so they would not be captured by the Soviets. Yes. it's very true that Germany had some seriously advaced technology by the end of the war. They were the first to have jet fighters. They had an H-bomb on paper, but luckily a conspiracy of scientists told Hitler that it would take the mass of the sun to make it work.

Sending a man to the moon was von Braun's personal dream, and he came here because he knew we could help him realize it, and because we were a free and Christian country.

**LAMFDTK** · 13 September 2001, 07:55

"Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. You won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Men, all this stuff you've heard about America not wanting to fight, wanting to stay out of the war, is a lot of horse dung. Americans traditionally love to fight. ALL REAL Americans, love the sting of battle. When you were kids, you all admired the champion marble shooter, the fastest runner, the big league ball players, the toughest boxers . . . Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser. Americans play to win all the time. I wouldn't give a hoot in Hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost and will never lose a war. Because the very thought of losing is hateful to Americans.
Now, an army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of crap. The bilious bastards who wrote that stuff about individuality for the Saturday Evening Post, don't know anything more about real battle than they do about fornicating. Now we have the finest food and equipment, the best spirit, and the best men in the world. You know . . . My God, I actually pity those poor bastards we're going up against. My God, I do. We're not just going to shoot the bastards, we're going to cut out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy Hun bastards by the bushel.

Now some of you boys, I know, are wondering whether or not you'll chicken out under fire. Don't worry about it. I can assure you that you'll all do your duty. The Nazis are the enemy. Wade into them. Spill their blood, shoot them in the belly. When you put your hand into a bunch of goo, that a moment before was your best friends face, you'll know what to do.

Now there's another thing I want you to remember. I don't want to get any messages saying that we are holding our position. We're not holding anything, we'll let the Hun do that. We are advancing constantly, and we're not interested in holding onto anything except the enemy. We're going to hold onto him by the nose, and we're going to kick him in the ass. We're going to kick the hell out of him all the time, and we're going to go through him like crap through a goose.

Now, there's one thing that you men will be able to say when you get back home, and you may thank God for it. Thirty years from now when you're sitting around your fireside with your grandson on your knee, and he asks you, "What did you do in the great World War Two?" You won't have to say, "Well, I shoveled shit in Louisiana." Alright now, you sons of bitches, you know how I feel. Oh! . . . I will be proud to lead you wonderful guys into battle anytime, anywhere. That's all."

General George S. Patton, Jr.
3rd Army speech
6th Armored Division
England, 31 May 1944

**RichL** · 13 September 2001, 08:02

Ey ey! Calm down!

Without wishing <i>too</i> hard to paint a target on my backside, I'd say there are valid points on both sides of this argument.

However, the "Nobody except the US helps anyone." is patently untrue.
Right now in the Balkans are troops from several European countries with the unenviable task of 'keeping the peace' (Not that there arent US troops there)
The last time there was a big earthquake in Turkey, Britain for one sent specialist Search and Rescue teams, and I'm sure other European nations did too.
American is big. It has a lot of people, which means a lot of taxpayers. It has a huge economy. It can afford to 'donate' sums that would cripple the economies of smaller nations. It can spare more military might for an operation such as Desert Storm than many other nations have in total.
To use an anaolgy, America can turn up with a suitcase full of cash while we're still rummaging down the back of the sofa for spare change. We'd do the same if we could.
But we're still there alongside you. And speaking as a Brit, we'll probably always will be.
Also dont forget that there are two big oceans between the USA and the rest of us. Any substantial help we send to the US is unlikely to arrive before its all over.

PS - The European Airbus consortium builds Airliners that are in use by several significant airlines.

**LAMFDTK** · 13 September 2001, 08:06

No American in his or here right mind would ever question the US/UK friendship. Not to worry

**KvHagedorn** · 13 September 2001, 08:46

I never forget that most of us in the US came from Europe. Europeans are our brothers. Sometimes I think some Europeans forget this, though. I don't want to have to kill.. I loathe fighting because it is instinctual in me that to win, you must annihilate. If you are going to fight, fight to win, and win instantly, with as little bloodshed as possible, yes, but win decisively. Germany did this in Poland and France in the early stages of WW2, with much less loss of life and destruction of property than would have occurred if they had been indecisive. Desert Storm was the same way. Swift, decisive, overwhelming. I'm glad Colin Powell is there in the Whilte House now, since he surely remembers what brought success in Iraq ten years ago. He seems mild mannered, but I know he understands this principle, as do I. If you want to win, you must do it as quickly as possible and with overwhelming force. Any other way, and even though you might win, you still lose. Wars are most terrible when they get bogged down. WWI. WWII after Hitler gave up on invading Britain and bombed London instead. Vietnam. The Russians in Afghanistan. That's what I fear most, protracted and indecisive war. Tapping the resources and lives of both sides for nothing. Destruction for nothing. The World Trade Center times a thousand. Trust me folks, we don't want that.

**omegaRED** · 13 September 2001, 10:00

People, calm down a bit ...

Things are bad, everyone`s on edge, and emotions are too strong. Americans, i feel for your pain, i truly do ... if you can, please refrain from posting too emotional and extreme posts. All others, if you find a post that is offending to you, refrain from posting another flame bait ...

Lets just all calm down ... allow a bit of time to pass, it will cool everyone`s heads ... this will not be forgotten, but it is not the time to start screaming "Death to the Moslems" or whatever ...

I felt pretty much the same as the Americans do know, everytime i heard another soldier or policeman was massacred by the NLA, and i was screaming for Albanian blood ... and many Macedonians did too ... but i`m calmer now, BUT i still want the $%$%$ bastards who massacred our friends, fathers, brothers dead ... and we`ll get them ... but we wont nuke them (obviously), nor use napalm, nor kill civilians ... those who wronged us will feel our wrath ... but not the innocents ...

**RichL** · 13 September 2001, 10:05

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
.....Vietnam. The Russians in Afghanistan. That's what I fear most, protracted and indecisive war. Tapping the resources and lives of both sides for nothing. Destruction for nothing. The World Trade Center times a thousand. Trust me folks, we don't want that.

Well, if it was Bin-Laden that was behind it. and if he is hiding out in Afghanistan, and if the Taleban refuse to hand him over, then a long protracted war is the only option.
Afghanistan is a war-torn wreck - there isnt much of anything left to bomb flat that would force the Taleban to comply. A ground assault and occupation is the only military option.
And seeing how well the Afghans stood up to the Russians, I cant see that happening.

**Six Of One** · 13 September 2001, 11:38

Re: A tribute to America

Originally posted by Helevitia
Ripped directly from www.HardOCP.com

A TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES
This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing. America: The Good Neighbor.

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television Commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:

I am not amazed that some of the points risen by Mr. Sinclair are disputed. The whole thing is a transcript of a 1973 propaganda record (7" format) issued by the State Department of the US. I don't know if Mr. Sinclair is still alive and re-recorded this speech and if he made any adaptions that i am missing. I can't check because i am in the USA right now, visiting relatives.

I hope that cleared some of the misunderstandings like the airplane issue. BTW, for some facts on third world aid visit http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html

or

404 page | United Nations

http://www.un.org/Depts/unsd/global.htm

Regards

PS:
CNN reporter to an italian traveller: "What was Bologna?"

If it weren't so sad, you might laugh.

**LAMFDTK** · 13 September 2001, 13:11

Calm down ? I will when these human-like reptiles are sand.

**Wulfman** · 13 September 2001, 14:35

have a look at certain pics (you will see what I mean, I hope)

http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?q=Y&a=tpc&s=50009562&f=34709834&m=4640913172&p=1

mfg
wulfman

**The Rock** · 13 September 2001, 15:23

For the life of me, I am mystified by some of you goddamned people. When someone posts something that could be uplifting to some people who may now require SERIOUS F**KING UPLIFTING, you HAVE to crap on it. Why, for once, couldn't people like you just SHUT UP AND KEEP QUIET OUT OF RESPECT!! Do you fools even f**king know what the word RESPECT means?!?! At least I can be proud that a fellow Canadian made those statements. To even think of attempting to debate those words at a time like this is POINTLESS. Unlike the fools who nit-pit, I think I can pretty much speak for my entire country when I say to America that we're in your corner, neighboor. I pray that we get to be involved in the ass-kicking to come.

Bart

**omegaRED** · 13 September 2001, 15:26

LAMFDTK : I want those bastards dead as much as you do, but at minimum cost of civilian lives, if possible ...

@The Rock : Me?

**ALBPM** · 13 September 2001, 15:41

Thanks Canada!!!!!