Northern Alliance To Take Kabul Tomorrow

[Joel]

Just heard on the radio that the detainies are on their way home.

Joel

[DuRaNgO]

heh, took less time to pull it off than underwear at a prom

[Wombat]

RedRed,
The target of this invasion was never one man. We wanted one man, and when the Taliban made it clear that they supported bin Laden's operations, then it was clear that leaving the Taliban in control was a danger to ourselves and to others. If they had just extradicted him, their ultra-fundamentalism, drug-manufacturing, government would have been left alone to keep on chugging.

[Bohrn]

you got the one man part right, but I believe, for the wrong reasons. People need a target for their rage, and a place for the leadership to focus its campaign publicly. It is easier for the masses to say "I hate Bin Laden" than to say "I hate the Al Qaida regime, financed by ex Saudi Prince Osama, and his drug lord, women hating, media manipulating ****oles" Makes it simpler.

but like the english gent said earlier, just my tuppence.

[Joel]

Some of the things they found in Kabul.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001390014-2001395995,00.html

Joel

[The PIT]

Well the Taliban are running off into the mountains to carry on the war while the volenteers are suddenly finding out that they're not really wanted by the Afghans. Must be a bit of a shock. How long will the Taliban soldiers be wanted in Pakistan becuase they must be a threat against the General there.

[RedRed]

Whoohoo.....

Aw, come on! Wake up, folks!

The taliban are crushed - whether you think it is right or not, dosent matter. Do you think that thats it with Afghanistan? Its just started!

I was listening to Radio 4 this evening. Aparently there are three groups marching on Kandahar this evening.

So what, you might ask?


These are the the followers of the same three warlords who were overthrown in the '90's by the taliban. The support for them came because these warlords who split up kandahar last time ended up with a completely barbaric regieme, that caused massive loss of life. They ended up at war with each other and let the Taliban in. These Taliban who imposed a vicious, but relatively evenhanded law (i.e. they were bastards to everybody!), are going to become 'Romantic warrior-Monk' types to many Muslims, and quickly.

Every Mullah, bandit and commander with an AK47 and an RPG7 has or will claim a chunk of this country, and the west have set this in motion.

Al Qaida will be all the harder to rip out among 50 warlords, rather than 1 regieme.

I dont think the world has heard the last of these guys, and they will not forget this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wor...00/1657267.stm

[Rags]

Every Mullah, bandit and commander with an AK47 and an RPG7 has or will claim a chunk of this country, and the west have set this in motion.

Al Qaida will be all the harder to rip out among 50 warlords, rather than 1 regieme.

I dont think the world has heard the last of these guys, and they will not forget this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wor...00/1657267.stm [/B]

The West didn't set this in motion. Their own people set this in motion. USSR and other little muslim countries pitched in as well. All because these inbreds don't know how to play nice with each other. It's about time we get to business with these ****oles who kill our citizens. If it accelerates the turmoil, fine. It will be over that much quicker. Good riddance.

Rags

[The PIT]

Well if they want to start fighting each other fine thats their decision. Hopefully they'll be to busy fighting themselfs to worry about the rest of the world.
More seriously lets see how it pans out. Everyone said if they entered kabul they'd massacre everyone in there and they didn't. It was one of the most peaceful handovers in Afghan history. Time will only tell if they go back to their old ways.
By the way Al Qaida isn't very popular there as it's associated with interfance from Saundi Ararbi and Pakistan so it may find it much harder to operate. It's more likely to relocate in another country and continue it's brain washing routines/terror there.

Sorry I said Al Qaida is popular I mean't isn't so I've just corrected that.

[RedRed]

Rags

Do you think that because everyone is painting the taliban as enemy number 2, that most countries believe it?

look arround the world.

The taliban were set up by Pakistan, supported by Chechnia and god knows who else!

They would have eventually controlled all of afghanistan had the west not interfered, after all this was essentially a US operation with UK support. It is relatively painless for other countries to offer (logistical) support at this stage, as they either fear america or want to be seen doing something.

France/germany/itally/turkey/australia and the rest have done some logistics only when the die was cast, and they are 'western' (in the broades sense (if not geographic!)
Ussr offered a few bases - no real cost.
China said no problems - cos they want to crust their own muslim problem, and the west will turn a blind eye.
Pakistan had to comply with the US - and was paid off

Remember it wasnt the Taliban who killed US citizens - it wasent even Afghans, It was egyptian, and Saudi citizens. The organisation they came from has one of its main centres in Afghanistan. (somalia is another, BTW).

Now that Afghanistan is fractured (possibly byond repair) where will that lead to?

regards RedRed

[The PIT]

Pakistan saw this as a way of getting the sanctions lifted a simply trade off . Also it's likely that General wotsit name saw it as a chance to see who was a threat to his leadership and made a note of who protested.
Bin Laden (The terrorist leader) arranged for the attacks and was supported by the Taliban. Unfortunatley asking the Taliban to do the right thing and hand him over didn't work so there wasn't much choice. Since the head quaters were there and the only way to possible get at it was by removing the Taliban.
The main aim is still to dismantle to organisation and I wouldn't be surprised that Political disscussion will resume after Afghanstan into rooting out the organisation from other countries. It's doubtful that they'll be further military strikes against other countries because public opinon will be against it except possibly America (understandly) who where at the forefront of the attacks. A lot of people in Britain wish the war would go away a view that would be different say if the planes were crashed into Buckingham palace and killed the Queen for example.
However like I said before you've got to wait to see how things pan out in Afghanistan. As for being fractured, Afghanistan have a long History of internal squabbles between the tribes.

[Rags]

You know Red, if you didn't have this blind bias you would be able to see some truth.

[Rags

Do you think that because everyone is painting the taliban as enemy number 2, that most countries believe it?

look arround the world.

The Taliban weren't our enemies until they refused to hand over terrorists (who were openly admitting their actions many times). ANYONE who stands in our way of getting to the terrorists is going to be our enemy #2.

The taliban were set up by Pakistan, supported by Chechnia and god knows who else!

They were helped by Pakistan, but they were set up by many different people for different reasons. This is a moot point at any rate. We made it clear that we would go after the terrorists and anyone who harbors them. Al Queerda is first in line and the Talibanannas refused to hand them over. They are going down for it.

They would have eventually controlled all of afghanistan had the west not interfered,

There are many who disagree with that. The people of Afhanistan were NOT happy with the Taliban regardless of what you seem to believe. Enough people get fed up, and there is no way in hell they are going to take over the rest of the country. The country was in shreds and the Taliban had control of a few key cities, but had no real central government.

after all this was essentially a US operation with UK support. It is relatively painless for other countries to offer (logistical) support at this stage, as they either fear america or want to be seen doing something.

No, it's because they are sick and tired of thugs coming in bombing their buildings because they don't agree with their beliefs.

*snip*...Pakistan had to comply with the US - and was paid off

When the UN and NATO set aside articles for us to commence action, it became very clear we aren't ****ing around anymore, and Pakistan knows what will happen if they decide to support the Taliban. This is actually a good thing because through cooperation, the west and some middle east nations may actually learn more about one another. Something you really should look into before pasting bias all over the forums.

Remember it wasnt the Taliban who killed US citizens - it wasent even Afghans, It was egyptian, and Saudi citizens.

So? They protected their organization in their country. They are evil bastards.

The organisation they came from has one of its main centres in Afghanistan. (somalia is another, BTW).

Geez where would I be without you to inform me of this info? Thank you so much.

Now that Afghanistan is fractured (possibly byond repair) where will that lead to?

regards RedRed

You ask the people in Kabul what their thoughts on the Taliban being gone is. That military dictatorship was no good for the people, only good for the taliban and other countries with ties to them (economically). For the first time in ages there seems to be light at the end of the tunnel for that country. They were not homogenized before the US entered, they were completely torn. People couldn't be open about their beliefs, they were instructed on how to dress, whether or not they could worship, they weren't free to express, they weren't free to gather. These people were treated horribly, especially the women. The jails and the justice 'system' there was nothing short of an atrocity. With the Taliban gone, there can't be anywhere to go but up.

Rags

[The PIT]

Originally posted by Rags
You ask the people in Kabul what their thoughts on the Taliban being gone is. Rags [/B]

Looking at the TV very happy. Earlier reports were saying chants of death to Pakistan were heard. So Pakistan isn't very popular either. Hopefully Rags is right and the only way is up.

[mdhome]

If i remember correctly, both the Taliban and Mujahedeen have been sponsored in the past by the west. Usually for our own ends. Unfortunatley this type of short sighted behaviour helps no one. After all this shit has blown over lets hope that we do the right thing and put the Afghan people before any self motivated political agenda.


regards MD

[RedRed]

Rags
Hey, I didnt want to get you blood pressure up, i want to stimulate some debate!

I get so fustrated with the 'no questions asked', short sighted and blinkered approach most posters seem to be taking.
I am not full of 'blind bias', I dont really care what happen in Afghanistan, and I am not 'anti american' either.

I am trying to point out a few facts, as I see them, and look at some longer term problems.

The taliban are/were a bunch of really bad bastards, I AGREE!!!!!
The difference is I felt they were bad bastards for years (helping chechnia for one thing), not just since sept 11.

but lets look at your comments,
you say:
The Taliban weren't our enemies until they refused to hand over terrorists (who were openly admitting their actions many times)

The taliban have been identified as a state harbouring terrorism by the UN for YEARS. It is a bit of rich to say that they are evil bastards now.... because one group they harboured attacked the US directly... THEY HAVE ALWAYS SUPPORTED THEM, and the US did nothing - remember that the embassys hit a few years ago killed 300+ africans..... The US led 'alliance' did not wage war on Al Qieda then. (the US was still sponsoring the taliban at this time!!!)

There are many who disagree with that. The people of Afhanistan were NOT happy with the Taliban regardless of what you seem to believe

err. I never claimed they were popular..... I said that they were necessary to impose SOME order in the country, which had been rulled by loose confederations of tribal chiefs & warlords... the people were NOT happy with this before, and its what they have got back now!!!

(no difference: the warlords came to power american support against the Russians rather than american support for the warlords against the taliban) -

does this spawn another question - 'should america attack itself for supporting terrorists as well? its harboured insurgents for years, and carried out an ilegal (in the eyes of the UN) blockade against Cuba?' - discuss

When the UN and NATO set aside articles for us to commence action, it became very clear we aren't ****ing around anymore, and Pakistan knows what will happen if they decide to support the Taliban

Er.... are you saying america would have attacked Packistan? Are you for real, man? This is not some iron age country (though it might look like it sometimes). This is a ****ing Nuke-/chem-/bio-hazard of the first division!!!! Packistan did not support the Taliban because it was intrested in getting its sancions lifted - not from fear of a US attack. Yes america would undoubitly be able to destroy Pakistan - no question... but america could also 'loose' entire western seaboard - they are almost at Mutually Assured Destruction levels of armament!!!
This does spawn another question: Will US attack any country with a reasonable chance if hitting them back? if so then the list of countries supporting international terrorism will be a long one!! (pakistan being one of them!!!)

you say

Geez where would I be without you to inform me of this info? Thank you so much.

I was just pointing out that they exist in as many as a dozen countries around the world.... Al Qieda is not the first, nor the only group involved in international terrorism.... It was the first to give the US a seriously bloodied nose.

With the Taliban gone, there can't be anywhere to go but up.

I hope so, but I havent seen a shred of evidence to point to that being so, thats my point!

RedRed