Should humans be allowed to modify genes of offspring?

[cjolley]

Originally posted by Wombat
...No "normal" human ever possesses these kinds of abilities...

Wombat,
These gifts are not limited to the mentaly challenged.
For example:
Against your Idiot Savant I will pit Srinivasa Ramanujan :
"One favorite story about Ramanujan revolves around a visit that Hardy paid to him in hospital. Hardy and Ramanujan had a habit of discussing the properties of different numbers. On this particular visit, Hardy commented to Ramanujan that the number of the taxi that he had just arrived in was 1729 -- a very uninteresting number. Ramanujan quickly replied that it was in fact a very interesting number as it was the smallest number that could be represented as the sum of two cubes in two ways:
1729 = 103 + 93
and
1729 = 123 + 13"

Against your Hawking I submit Richard Feynman
Read one of his books if you think that kind of genius needs to come in a broken box.

Chuck

[KvHagedorn]

Also, Stephen Hawkins is also a great example. If his body weren't the cage that it is, do you think he would have spent all that time being introspective, and unravelling the mysteries of the universe? He's pretty much forced to establish his own world, and he used it to understand ours.

I really don't think Stephen Hawking would be any less brilliant if he could walk and speak. He certainly gained some perspective from his condition, but that's a bit like the argument the Catholic Church makes for celibacy.. that abstinence makes one more spiritual and pure.. more atuned to God. Perhaps it does, but I somehow doubt that's an even trade.

Mordrid, that was an excellent point. There are just too many people who are NOT well suited to be playing God who would be playing around with this.

[KRSESQ]

speaking of Stephen Hawking:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=11522350&method=full

Belated happy birthday!

Kevin

[Paddy]

Being the medic type I feel obliged to chip in. Andrea (my significant other) has a degree in genetics and currently works in the field of gene loci analysis.

The topic raises a few questions to me...

1) Should we be allowed to 'edit' our children before they are concieved?

2) Should we be allowed to 'edit' them after they are born?

I agree that picking designer babies will result in a narrowing of the gene pool. And a reduction in diversity is never a good thing.
HIV is rife in South America. Prostitutes have spread the disease through the mining population and I believe the prevalence there is ~70%+ (off the top of my head). Not all the easy going women have HIV though despite repeated exposure to the virus. It is in them that the ‘cure’ lies. This is diversity; this is what could be lost...

However, if you have ever seen a child dying of cystic fibrosis (CF) you'd want to help them any way you could. Current therapeutic techniques take advantage of gene therapy to correct the faulty genes, but the process is fundamentally flawed and they are fighting a loosing battle. It is currently technically possible to correct the likes of CF but only at an embryonic level.

What would you prefer, having to take medication all your life or having to take it once, before you are born?

Will this technology be abused? Of course. Name one that hasn't?
Can we morally say 'no' to treating a patient if there is a cure?

[Kastuvas]

This whole subject is mind-boggling and the more you try to find out about it the more confusing it gets. If in the future we will be able to completely design a human, where does the God come in and does it mean we don’t have a soul? If we can clone another exactly the same individual.

All these medical advances look more and more like film “The 6th day” with Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[Dr Mordrid]

Paddy,

You define exactly what I meant by 'strict controls'. For diseases like CF I totally agree that pre-emptive treatment should be an option, but some of the stuff I've been seeing in the journals lately disgusts me.

I for one certainly don't want to see things like dark skin, almond eyes or other such nonsense being edited out genetically for cosmetic reasons, not to mention some traits that have immunological benefit.

It's bad enough that the plastic surgery boys are up this BS of late.

Dr. Mordrid

[cjolley]

Originally posted by Kastuvas
...where does the God come in...

God came in when he gave us the brains to do it.

Originally posted by Kastuvas
...If we can clone another exactly the same individual....

Cloning does not reproduce an individual, it reproduces a set of genes.
This is an important distinction that keeps getting lost.

Chuck

[Paddy]

Cloning does not reproduce an individual, it reproduces a set of genes.
This is an important distinction that keeps getting lost.

I could mention Dolly, or are you referring to nature cf. nurture?

[Gurm]

Wanna know what I think?

If you make a clone of me, it's not me. Period.

It might look like me, but it won't have my fingerprints (identical DNA doesn't equal identical fingerprints, for some unknown reason) or my soul. It'll have its own soul. And if it's raised by a corporation, may God have mercy on said soul.

- Gurm

[Alec]

Who´d wanna clone a Scottish Simpsons character?

[Technoid]

Originally posted by Gurm

It might look like me, but it won't have my fingerprints (identical DNA doesn't equal identical fingerprints, for some unknown reason)
- Gurm

How do you know that/ where have you read it?

Or have you cloned yourself and compared??

[TdB]

Originally posted by Gurm
Wanna know what I think?

If you make a clone of me, it's not me. Period.

It might look like me, but it won't have my fingerprints (identical DNA doesn't equal identical fingerprints, for some unknown reason) or my soul. It'll have its own soul. And if it's raised by a corporation, may God have mercy on said soul.

- Gurm

you refer to your clone as IT(probably to make your point), which is what im afraid will happen if we start to clone people, im afraid that clones won´t be viewed as human beings, as they can be replaced easely.
one of the things that makes us valuable is that we are unique, each clone will also have a unique soul, but all we will see is 500 identical clones and not 500 unique souls and because of that they will be treated as expendable things as their souls has no value to the ones who cloned you.
lets face it: noone will ever start cloning because he wants a friend. im afraid the reason for cloning would be a commercial reason, or just to have spareparts for replacing broken limbs/destroyed organs.
the reason why people would clone is because they want a copy, not a person.

[Paddy]

If you make a clone of me, it's not me. Period.

It might look like me, but it won't have my fingerprints (identical DNA doesn't equal identical fingerprints, for some unknown reason) or my soul. It'll have its own soul.

Do identical twins have unique fingerprints? I dont think so, I may be wrong. Sepreate idnetical twins at birth and yes they look the same, but will have very different personalities.

Whatever the moral/ethical implications are in its abuse. Genetic engineering will be the way forward. It could abolish the need for an organ register and potentially cure most diseases.

It's gonna happen.

[Paddy]

No, we shouldn't play for God

Genetic manipulation is one of the oldest tricks known to man. Farmers have always planted specific crops togeather in an attempt to produce a daughter crop with certain characteristics.

This technology has been used to introduce more resitant crops in extreme environments.

[Wombat]

Genetic manipulation is one of the oldest tricks known to man. Farmers have always planted specific crops togeather in an attempt to produce a daughter crop with certain characteristics.

This technology has been used to introduce more resitant crops in extreme environments.

That's not genetic manipulation, that's breeding. Nothing can come out of that mating that isn't a derivative of the parent plants, or dogs, or horses. GA is entirely different. You don't know what will happen. I guarantee we'll be doing GA before we really understand how we use it well.