Should the royal family go

[Novdid]

I feel that I will have to express myself a little bit deeper.

About the fact that the death penalty violates human rights is the following: the right to live. Every human being no matter what they have done shall not be executed. Before the flames come let me specify that.

If you ask me what's worse of the following:

1, Getting executed.
2, Rott in jail for the rest of your life.

I would say #2. Do I want people like Milosevic or Bin Laden to be executed, yes a part of me wants it but the more reasonable part of me want that those bastards rott in jail, that would be a punishment much worse. In the case of Bin Laden he would become an even greater hero for the poor people in those countries if he was executed. Now the prisons may be a relatively pleasant place(which I don't like them to be), but that's a whole different discussion.

Now the other part about it being "wrong". Like some people in this thread have posted earlier, the justice system is fallible. Yes it does fail and do so quite often. And getting executed by mistake is just not acceptable. The death penalty does not scare people from killing, look at all the european countries, compared to the US the murder rate is quite low. Gun control would help tremendously, it's much easier to get a gun in the US than here in europe (look at the massacres in schools on the other side of the atlantic). But that's also a whole different story.

Some american (no names) called many of us europeans weenies on this issue...grow up and get off your high horse.

[Dr Mordrid]

Nope. I'll stay ON my high horse...and hopefully the critter will trample a few murderers on the way back to the barn.

Be kind for kindness sake if you want to, but even an animal with an IQ of 4 knows enough to kill his enemies when attacked so he won't have to defend against the same one twice.

Dr. Mordrid

[KvHagedorn]

look at all the european countries, compared to the US the murder rate is quite low.

I can believe this.. weenies are less likely to be murderers

.. unless it comes to murdering unborn babies, then the weenies all cow and give in to their selfish women who don't want to lose their "freedom" to be irresponsible and vain.

[Rags]

Originally posted by Schorsch


Sorry Wombat, but I have to disagree. The assumption that executing somebody may stop another person from committing a crime is nothing but pure speculation - you'll never be able to prove that since you cannot know what would have happened if the executed person would have been left alive. It certainly doesn't justify killing a human being.

Death penalty as a deterrent is a very questionable concept - maybe you know that in Canada the murder rate (is that the correct term for it?) has gone down after the death penalty was abolished. No, the death penalty is "an eye for an eye", and as Mahatma Gandhi once said: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".

It seems this is a topic for a new poll, isn't it?

Oh? But didn't the economy also improve about the same time the death penalty was put away with? Social conditions are a huge factor in all types of crime.

Rags

[Wombat]

(look at the massacres in schools on the other side of the atlantic). But that's also a whole different story.

That's funny, we say the same thing from here when we watch the fighting in Ireland, or the general chaos in Spain.

Milosevic? Death. bin Laden? Death. These people may become martyrs, but they're more dangerous as masterminds behind bars.

look at all the european countries, compared to the US the murder rate is quite low.

Ya know, I was just thinking the other day that I wish the US were as calm and stable as Yugoslavia, or the Czech Republic. Everyplace has its problems. But since we have so much land, with so many people, we generate our share too.

[windigo]

death penalty aint worth the trouble time or expense lock em up and keep em locked up

end of story

[Wombat]

death penalty aint worth the trouble time or expense lock em up and keep em locked up

Cost of bullet: ~ $1

Cost of incarceration: $65,000 to $400,000+ per year.

Unfortunately, it currently costs about $2,000,000 to execute someone. But, if they were going to be in supermax, then you've have a ROI in 4 years or so.

[windigo]

actually i hear in the states it costs about 10 million to execute someone???

[KvHagedorn]

Remember The Matrix? Why don't we turn the scum into human batteries and solve our energy crisis? Then they would be catatonic and out of commision, and we would have clean energy and be free from oil dependency.

[efty]

My view

Who of you guys that support the death penalty would actually have the guts to do the execution themselves?

I know I wouldn't. I do not support the death penalty, even though many times I think this person deserves to die. I would never be able to kill a person(a murderer, rapist, child molester) in cold blood.

A few thousand years ago they used to kill christians for their religion. During the Holy Inquisition they used to kill women because of witchcraft. People would gather in masses to witness the "executions". They would participate in them. They would rally with the executioners, much like the same way you guys do now. Kill them, Kill them, b.a.s.tards, murderers and so on.


Our society looks at those things in disgust(I hope). What will our descentants think of us? Fear of death is a strong deterant is a society were people have nothing else to loose besides their own lives. Is that the case in the developed countries? The few exceptions are those that need help at an early age. Need a better education, need some guidance. I don't think a person is born a murderer. Society as a whole and a government have a responsibility towards this person because they contributed and made him what he is. What would executing him accomplish?? Nothing. It just gives a sort of satisfaction that justice has been served. To whom though??


The western world should be ashamed. We have the resources and the ability to deal with the problem at its root. Executing a person will not "heal" a psycho that was beaten by his father and raped by his neighbour. This is what we should spend our resources. Try and find the root of the problem and solve it. Then we will not have to deal with executions.

Maybe my view is idealistic, however I do believe that we should face a problem and deal with it not execute it once it bothers us.

[KvHagedorn]

actually i hear in the states it costs about 10 million to execute someone???

If this is true, it's ridiculous.. the cost to prosecute a capital murder case was figured at a million I believe. This could be solved if we got rid of the greedy lawyers. A commision of the most sensible out of state judges should review all murder convictions, and if the convictions are found to be sound, the murderer should be put to death immediately. I think there are probably two methods of execution that havent been considered before, though..

The first would remove some measure of guilt from the state.. death by exposure and starvation/dehydration. Stick the convicted in a cage sized so that they can neither sit nor stand and suspend them 20 feet in the air over a public courtyard so everyone can watch them suffer and slowly die.. then let vultures eat the corpse and leave the bones up there for awhile.. nice deterrent.. minimal cost.. charge admission.

The other way I thought of when some friends and I were trying to come up with the most humane way of execution.. stick the convict's head under a huge pile driver.. his head is instantly pulverized.. squashed like a Gallagher watermelon.. a bit messy perhaps, but effective and painless. Nice and graphic too.. charge admission as well..

[Wombat]

Re: My view

Originally posted by eftychios

A few thousand years ago they used to kill christians for their religion.

Bull. They were killed because they were general pains in the ass. A lot of religions lived under Roman rule, but it was pretty much only the Christians that wouldn't play nice with others.

During the Holy Inquisition they used to kill women because of witchcraft.

And regardless of the punishment, this was (a)politically motivated intimidations and eliminations that were (b)masked as religious persecution. Neither of these are good things, and neither condoned by our society, then or now.

People would gather in masses to witness the "executions". They would participate in them. They would rally with the executioners, much like the same way you guys do now. Kill them, Kill them, b.a.s.tards, murderers and so on.

What are you on? I don't see anyone here rallying. "Ooo ooo! Pick me! I wanna pull the trigger!" Also, nota bene that the first part of your paragraph has absolutely no relation to the latter.

Fear of death is a strong deterant is a society were people have nothing else to loose besides their own lives. Is that the case in the developed countries?

Huh? By your logic, because I'm materially satisfied, I don't value my life? You know, I'm sure people don't mind being murdered, as long as they get to keep all their shit.

I don't think a person is born a murderer. Society as a whole and a government have a responsibility towards this person because they contributed and made him what he is

Also, complete crap. I didn't make your child a killer. TV didn't make your child a killer. Violent video games do not make a child a killer. Poor parenting and/or a child who is too weak or too unstable to make sane choices makes a killer. Why is it when people end up in shit situations they blame "society," but when they become successful individuals they did it "on their own?"

What would executing him accomplish??

At least one borderline criminal will go "Oh @#$#! That's harsh. I don't think I'll let myself be eligible for that situation." If seeing another punished does not deter another's actions, then why do we have role models? Why do we make examples of others?

The western world should be ashamed. We have the resources and the ability to deal with the problem at its root. Executing a person will not "heal" a psycho that was beaten by his father and raped by his neighbour. This is what we should spend our resources. Try and find the root of the problem and solve it. Then we will not have to deal with executions.

You can't just decide that this world can prevent every evil from ever occuring. Things happen behind closed doors. The price of supposedly preventing all of these unfortunate acts would be complete disclosure of your entire life. I for one will not accept this price. The lives of a few are outweighed by the liberty of the whole.
You can't just "solve" it. Some people are just plain crazy. We used to call them that. Now they're "misunderstood," or "a product of our society," etc, etc. Nonsense! Some people are just not right in the head, and never will be nor would have been. If somebody's so unstable that they can't deal with life, then it's their responsibility to adjust, not the world's responsibility to shield and shelter. Humanity is strong. Look at all that we have survived. Evolution does not work by coddling the least-common-denominator.

Maybe my view is idealistic

I think the word you're looking for is "myopic," not "idealistic."



PS: Even if it does take $10mil to execute someone, that's still cheaper than keeping them in prison for the rest of their natural life.

[KvHagedorn]

Huh? By your logic, because I'm materially satisfied, I don't value my life? You know, I'm sure people don't mind being murdered, as long as they get to keep all their shit.

LOL (really!) that was hilarious!

[The PIT]

Too pissed to comment.

[Wombat]

Too pissed to comment.

Then why write this at all?