Should the royal family go

[The PIT]

Kv
So you're saying someones got a proven mental age of 7 accidentaly kills/badly hurts someone because they didn't release what they were doing like handing them a live mains cable should be put striaght to the chair?
Or someone who is mentally ill and the docs say cured should go to the chair because some quack can't do his job properly or there isn't money available to keep them locked away.

[KvHagedorn]

Here in Sweden the majority of the people are "retarded liberal socialists" as you almost call them. In this land of "socialists liberals" you don't have to pay to study at a university. The only things you have to pay for is your living. If you pay tax, a little bit of that money goes to these things, amongs others: Free healthcare etc, etc.

Let's just say this about Sweden.. in many ways you can afford to be social liberals. Your taxes are extremely high, though. Universal health coverage would be a good thing if it was properly managed. I'm sure teachers are paid much more there than here as well, and are probably worth the money.

I'm pretty sure I didn't say that.
But then, I guess it's easier to argue with a straw man.
Pehaps you could just set up my side the way you like it
and save time.

I would be obliged to you then if you would please explain what you were trying to say..

KRSESQ and The PIT: There are potential mitigating circumstances in many cases. Certainly if someone was being led around like a "trained monkey" and was trained to kill, the trainer would be more culpable. If Albert Einstein was preoccipied (as he was famous for being) and accidentally handed you a live mains cable, I would find him no more culpable than a retarded person.. it was an ACCIDENT either way.. the problem is that when you allow society to fall apart as it has been doing, the good judgement necessary to distinguish between an accident and malice is becoming harder and harder to find. These bad or lazy cops/DA/etc Chuck mentioned are the way they are because they are allowed to be motivated by the wrong goals. Those goals are set by the government, and the government is allowed to set these goals because they are thralls of corporations and interest groups and have no motivation themselves to support the public good.

Mental illness and retardation might be one of several mitigating factors in some cases, but if a person breaks into your house and bludgeons you to death of his own free will, do you think he should recieve a milder penalty if his IQ is below some arbitrarily set level (and when we are talking about legalities, any set level can be argued to be arbitrary)?

[The PIT]

Kv
Thats what the courts are there for to decide whether the person does know what they're doing or not. I know a few cases in our country where "care in the community" which really means we haven't got the money so we'll chuck them out has led to mentally ill people attacking and killing people. I lived next door to a mental ill gentalman and trying to get the medical and social services convinced that he couldn't look after himself was a nightmare. In the end he nearly died and then after a few months they decided he wasn't fit to look after himself. I know another member of my family who was attacked by her husband who was a manic depressive. He went look looking for help before the incident but doctors ignored him and pushed him away.
Only after the incident he got the care he needed. Now the first case the guy wasn't violent but the again the medical or social services wouldn't lift a finger until after any attack. Now should they go to the chair?

[RedRed]

KV:

..Oh, and everyone should stop saying that being retarded or just really stupid should get you out of the death penalty. We need FEWER really stupid people, not more. We really should just off ALL the hardcore criminals whose lives and psyches have been ruined by living in prison for 5 or more years, and use the money saved to pay teachers more, and to set a high moral and intellectual bar for them to clear before being hired. The message social liberals send to kids is that crime pays and good grades don't.

and lets create the perfect American race too, while we are at it!.... Lets abort every fetous with a chance of Downs too!...
(oh no, you dont approve of state supported abortion!, I am sure even ofter RAPE!)

Lets kill em all for 3 strikes of grand theft Auto..... (7 years, isnt it?)
Lets kill em all for big time fraud.....

KV you are so full of Bull!
at least be consistant with your arguments.

(I dont approve of abortion, I respect those who make the decision to have one)


RedRed

[KvHagedorn]

and lets create the perfect American race too, while we are at it!.... Lets abort every fetous with a chance of Downs too!...
(oh no, you dont approve of state supported abortion!, I am sure even ofter RAPE!)

Lets kill em all for 3 strikes of grand theft Auto..... (7 years, isnt it?)
Lets kill em all for big time fraud.....

KV you are so full of Bull!
at least be consistant with your arguments.

Red, now you're putting words in my mouth. Let's see.. did I say any of that? No. There are people with Downs who have turned out to be very decent people. They should not all be aborted. I'm saying that if they killed someone and MEANT to do it out of MALICE, they should not have any special priviledges. They should be treated like anyone else.

The HARDCORE criminals I was referring to are those who have been so mistreated while incarcerated that a good hanging would probably be less cruel for them. I think prison sentences should be much shorter for certain lesser crimes, but more intense. Being made to associate with other criminals does nothing to reform people, either.. nothing at all. It makes them unfit for society. Instead they should get 6 months solitary confinement while being forced to watch The Waltons and Little House on the Prairie. Anything but making them associate with other sociopaths and giving them weights to bulk up with. That's certainly NOT the answer.

The whole point of this is that we are paying top dollar for a system that does not work. We are giving away free scholarships to crime college for petty criminals who want to become master criminals, while decent hardworking people with some intelligence cannot afford to go to a real school to become productive at a real job. Does this make any sense at all?

[RedRed]

KV, I am sorry I snapped at you I was a bit tired.... first day back to work an'all

RedRed

[The PIT]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn

Instead they should get 6 months solitary confinement while being forced to watch The Waltons and Little House on the Prairie.

Err wouldn't that make them worse???