Interesting article

[Joel]

Hey Redred,

Let me ask you a question? What has the US done to you that has made you so bitter toward the US that you would believe that we would attack another country just for the shear hell of it?? The US is not in a habit of doing that?? Believe me if we go to war with Iraq it will be for more than just that he is an evil dictator. BTW are you from Ireland??? What have they contributed so far to this effort??? Plus being a small part of this coalition you stand to lose very little but gain quite alot. Hell you're alot closer than we are we he decides to deploy chemical, biological or nucluear weapons. Hell he will even use them againist his own people, which he has, if he thinks it will get him what he wants.

Joel

[Wombat]

we would attack another country just for the shear hell of it??

Well, maybe not just for the hell of it, but usually greed. Apparently American greed is more important than sovereignty of other countries.

Panama (canal)
Panama (Noriega)
Iran-Iraq
Iraq-Kuwait (yes he's an ****ole, but it wasn't our business, except for oil)
Chile
Expansion west through Native America
Mexican-American War, 54'40", manifest destiny and all the bullshit that went with it
Spanish-American War
Communist "containment"


The list goes on, but I'm tired.

[Novdid]

I have to agree with Wombat. Most of the actions US have made seems to have it's roots in money.

[RedRed]

Joel - america has done absolutely nothing to make me bitter twords its people. Towords the regieme, ah now thats a different matter. As Wombat puts it, (better than I could) its the sheer numbers of wars the US has been involved in - by FAR the most agressive country in the past 200 years. (Check out the history guy - list of wars.) -and almost all for its own gain.
There has been NO war faught in the last 200 years (BY ANYBODY) for Justice/Truth/etc....
You and Rags talked in earlier threads about how you, the american people, do not trust your central government. That same government that is trying to get support for a war NOONE else wants. Of course I am annoyed at America sticking its nose into what is none of its business. Afghanistan could (almost) be justified. I cannot see how invading Iraq CAN be justified. It hasnt broken anymore UN resolutions in the past than many other countries. Lybia and Somalia have more links with terrorism - (somailia also haveing AlQaeda camps) - why not invade them?

Ireland, thank god remained neutral (except as a refueling stop) in both Desert storm and Afghanistan. England, sadly, follows the US's lead. Perhaps it will follow Europes for the next round - The EEC heads of state refused to EVEN DISCUS action against Iraq at the Barcelona conference, despite UK pressure.

RedRed

[efty]

It is all about the Benjamins

Greed is not only a characteristic of the American Government but also of the people. Maybe greed is a too harsh word, but unfortunately most people in the US value money more than anything. They spend their lifes aquiring wealth, material goods and so on. Why do you think that so many kids become drug dealers in schools? Because their ideal and dream is to get rich. What better way to do that by selling E to their classmates!!



In my freshman year in College most of my classmates were undecided about what they wanted to study. They generaly lucked direction in their lives. I strongly believe that the American society needs to change and soon in order to survive. It cannot depend indefenitely on immigrants to fill possitions at Universities and research labs.

[Joel]

You know I had this nice long post ready but then I realized that some of y'all have such a distorted view of America that there is nothing I could say that would change anything. Let's just say I hope you are right that there is nothing we have to worry about from Iraq, but if you are wrong I hope that you are least man enough to admit it. I know I won't have a problem with saying you were right.

Joel

[Rags]

I strongly believe that the American society needs to change and soon in order to survive. It cannot depend indefenitely on immigrants to fill possitions at Universities and research labs.

This remark here is the most utterly ignorant statement I have read on this forum thus far.

Get a clue, get a life.

Rags

[KvHagedorn]

Greed is not only a characteristic of the American Government but also of the people. Maybe greed is a too harsh word, but unfortunately most people in the US value money more than anything. They spend their lifes aquiring wealth, material goods and so on. Why do you think that so many kids become drug dealers in schools? Because their ideal and dream is to get rich. What better way to do that by selling E to their classmates!!

In my freshman year in College most of my classmates were undecided about what they wanted to study. They generaly lucked direction in their lives. I strongly believe that the American society needs to change and soon in order to survive. It cannot depend indefenitely on immigrants to fill possitions at Universities and research labs.

You do not understand what you are saying, do you?

Maybe greed is a too harsh word, but unfortunately most people in the US value money more than anything.

That is because we are left with nothing else to value. We have no culture because the lies of "multiculturalism" will not allow us to have one.

I strongly believe that the American society needs to change and soon in order to survive.

How? Just exactly how would you suggest we solve our societal problems? I wanna hear this. It really oughta be rich.

It cannot depend indefenitely on immigrants to fill possitions at Universities and research labs.

This statement thoroughly pisses me off. If we were allowed to retain our cultured European heritage, we would have a much greater flowering of individuals here to pursue these interests. As it is, academically inclined people from all over the world (who have rich daddies) come here for their education and stay because the material benefits here compel them. What does that get us? Well, in college I had nothing but foreigners thrown at me as mathematics teachers. Foreigners who couldn't speak English well, couldn't teach worth a damn, and couldn't understand why the fvcked up school system here had not prepared us better. (Because we are so busy keeping our eye on the lowest common denominator, and paying teachers next to nothing, so they are mostly far less intelligent than the top 10% of their students.)

I could go on and on about America's shortcomings.. I'm allowed, because I live here.. and I know what the hell I'm talking about, also because I live here. Perhaps you went to college here, but you still cannot hope to understand until you've walked a mile in my shoes, or in any other American's.

[Wombat]

If we were allowed to retain our cultured European heritage

Well, we pretty much gave that up on our own. It's not being "allowed." The idea of "cultural European heritage" is pretty much bunk anyway. Even the European cultures are at odds with themselves, just look at Europe. Here, those people live side by side.

If we were supposed to stay "European" we should have thought of that before we assimilated Native lands, before we took over California, Texas, and other hispanic areas, and before we brought a few million people over from Africa as slaves.

And it's not just foreigners "with rich daddies," it's our own choice. At my alma mater, a lot of the graduate positions were held by foreigners, especially all the Chinese in engineering graduate work. Why? Because no Americans <I>want</I> the damn position. It's not an issue of money: you can go get a Master's or PhD in engineering for free if you work in a research lab, but we're leaving those positions to be filled on our own. It's nobody else's fault. If we didn't <I>want and need</I> these people, we wouldn't have industry petitioning for things like a larger number of H1-B visas.

[Dogbert]

Well, here are my 2 cents.

My girlfriend (she's from Portugal) hates the USA for being a Capitalist brute expanding their bad culture all over the world.

I understand some of her anger though I don't agree with most of it. The US is really the best and worst example of true capitalism. A true natural society where the stong devours the weak. In this example, natural isn't very much human...

Having McDonnalds all over the world in another bad thing symbolising the US.

On the other hand, people tend to forget music, great tv shows (married with children for example) and the fact so many people saved their lives by migrating to the US and succeeding there.

Now Europle likes to frown on the US when they pick a war somewhere on the globe for "no justified reason" whatsoever.

For example, Iraq (one tyranny) decides to conquer another tyranny. BIG DEAL !
Now let's try another example, Germany (Hitler) tries to repeat what a French guy (Napoleon) did before him.
Wasn't it nice that the US came to the rescue ? I mean, if Germany wouldn't pose a threat to the US, we should have a German Euro-Afro-ME. And maybe they'd later even succeed in conquering the USSR and China with the help of Japan ?

Third problem is that Europe (that likes so much to see themselves as enlightened) likes to hide behind the UN most of the time. But on the other hand runs to open international courts in which they put people on trial.
Why put one tyrant to trial and not ALL of them ?
Only because he's near by ? Only because he's polluting the enlightened European bloodline ?

I think that with all the bad people say about the USA, Europe is ten times worse. At least the US shows their true colors in their media, cinema etc. Europe is still hiding behind blank words and accusations.

My girlfriend asked me to consider leaving Israel for another country till things get sorted out here if at all.
We both have European passports and she has a Canadian one as well.
She'd go almost anywhere but the USA. I told her I'd go almost anywhere but Europe.
Know why ? Cause as much as Eurpoe is tryhing to hide it, chaos is near. There are more mosques in England than there are churches, Racism is starting once again in full power over east germany, France - well they're French (nuff said), Spain is going to find themselves with many many many muslims marrying Spanish muslims and coming to live there in order to create a Muslim majority there.

If that's not enough and you ask yourself what's next on the menu, well:

What would happen if China conquers Taiwan ? Most of the stuff in our computers is manufactured there (TSMC, UMC)

What will happen in 15-25 years when the Arabs run out of oil ?


Al-Quaida are nothing but scout boys compared with what's comming from the rest of the world in the future.

Now you should as yourselves, do we want the US to act now and try to put some order in these places, or should we treat them as Kinder surprises and see what happens once they open up ?

[efty]

??

Do they have kinder in the US??

This remark here is the most utterly ignorant statement I have read on this forum thus far.

Willing to elaborate on that?

[KvHagedorn]

If we were supposed to stay "European" we should have thought of that before we assimilated Native lands, before we took over California, Texas, and other hispanic areas, and before we brought a few million people over from Africa as slaves.

Selling our children's souls for a buck. No leadership to say no, or perhaps just no leadership powerful enough to say no. Certainly no leadership which gave a damn about the bulk of poor and middle class Europeans who were working to really build this country (and at the time it was pretty much all British/German/Dutch who were fairly compatible, despite their often opposing religious views, to which we owe the priciple of separation of church and state.)

If we didn't want and need these people, we wouldn't have industry petitioning for things like a larger number of H1-B visas.

in response see:

Foreigners who couldn't speak English well, couldn't teach worth a damn, and couldn't understand why the fvcked up school system here had not prepared us better. (Because we are so busy keeping our eye on the lowest common denominator, and paying teachers next to nothing, so they are mostly far less intelligent than the top 10% of their students.)

Industry doesn't care about anything but money. Today's money. Tomorrow's money? Well, let the next CEO worry about that (when I've cashed in my stock options and bailed out.) Industry couldn't care less about the social fabric of our society. The worse it is, in fact, the better for them, because they can uproot and push about their employees at will, and inflict "corporate culture" upon them as some sort of twisted replacement for a real culture.

The evil synergy between poorly funded U.S. high schools and Foreign graduate students teaching undergraduate mathematics could not fail American students more efficiently had it been engineered to do so. The population as a whole is conservative about spending tax dollars on education when we have no unifying culture upon which to pin our collective hopes. It becomes a primitive grab at the feeding trough, since obviously government cares nothing for us, only corporations and minority interests carry any weight (at least this perception is strong enough to create the effect.) Higher standards and higher teacher salaries have made European high schools far superior to the pathetic entities such as the one I was subjected to, but more homogenous societies allow them to have these more mature interests, while we are, in effect, still battling through a primitive cold war, which is the result of greedy sleazebag slave traders 300 years ago, and greedy sleazebag cheapass homebuilders today, which facilitates the influx of cheap outsider labor and further destabilizes and cripples any hope we might have ever had for a stable society. The government is controlled by greedy corporate interests, so it really has no desire to look after middle class European Americans. It just uses us as poster children for "American Values" and then stabs us all in the back in the name of political correctness and its own bribes it receives from corporations. Case in point: the three European American men who raised the flag at the World Trade Center were replaced in statuary as a Black, a White, and a Hispanic.. for the sake of political correctness. I think we have put up with this crap for long enough.

[KvHagedorn]

You're quite right Dogbert.. it's time Europeans decide if they want to remain European or be overrun by the muslim hoards, whose de facto objective is CONQUEST, nothing less. They are using the weak-mindedness created by taboos against racism to gain a foothold in Europe, using immigration as a very thin disguise for infiltration and invasion. The ancestors of those who stopped the Turks at the gates of Vienna now welcome them with open arms and skulls emptied of all sense by misplaced feminine sympathy, egged on by corporations who want their oil money. The whole world is going to hell if they don't wise up and grow some testes.

[efty]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn


This statement thoroughly pisses me off. If we were allowed to retain our cultured European heritage, we would have a much greater flowering of individuals here to pursue these interests. As it is, academically inclined people from all over the world (who have rich daddies) come here for their education and stay because the material benefits here compel them. What does that get us? Well, in college I had nothing but foreigners thrown at me as mathematics teachers. Foreigners who couldn't speak English well, couldn't teach worth a damn, and couldn't understand why the fvcked up school system here had not prepared us better. (Because we are so busy keeping our eye on the lowest common denominator, and paying teachers next to nothing, so they are mostly far less intelligent than the top 10% of their students.)

I do not see where we disagree. I just pointed out that indeed there is a problem that needs to be addressed. The fact that these grad students are here is not their fault. They just grap the oportunity. BTW I am a math tutor in my college, out of the 10 tutors working in the lab, at least 4 are "foreingers" and the rest americans or second generation imigrants.

How? Just exactly how would you suggest we solve our societal problems? I wanna hear this. It really oughta be rich.

I am not a sociologist. My first suggestion would be resurrecting the family concept. How is it possible to raise a family when both parents work, each of them taking a number of overtime hours and never being around for their kids? I don't think the problem starts originates from education exclusively, however I believe, since a family is the basic building block of society that would be the right place to start.

[RedRed]

whoha!

Effi - I think that WAS a bit strong..... I was referring to the Forein policy of the Government, which appears to be completely self serving. I would NOT care to comment on the people them selves, as I believe that is as wrong and unfair as Gurms Palestinian comments!

Dog, I agree with your girlfriend!
howefer :- There are more mosques in England than there are churches
well that is complete tosh! Not everywhere is it that Islam does not live reasonably peacefully with other faiths, you cant seem to comprehend this...


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