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  • #31
    RedRed,

    I accpet muslims as peaceful people in General (Turkey is one hell of a great example).
    BUT, the fact that there are more Mosques in England than churches points to many other things other than religion.
    It points tot he fact that there is a huge number of foreigners living in England. It points tothe fact that whether the Brits would like it or not, one day all their colonising will backlash with all those immigrants already in Britain will form a political entity with a lot of power over the government.
    While the Brits go on voting to this or that party and dividing their votes between small and major parties, the immigrants will vote as one to 1 huge party.
    Islam as a religion (a little like catholisism) has a tendancy to turn more religious over the years (unlike Turkey).
    There are already muslim girls going to schools with a Burka and a veil. Next thing, they'll have the political power to allow some religious habits, and later... Enforce them in the name of Democracy.
    It's already in progress in Spain.

    At least I don't see any of that happening in the U.S anytime soon.

    A small very old joke ot remind you of something:

    Q: what's the first major Arab city being visited in the Paris Dakar Rally ?
    A: Marseille !

    Comment


    • #32
      BUT, the fact that there are more Mosques in England than churches points to many other things other than religion.
      I am afraid that that is wrong, that is what I was contesting. Christian Churches outnumber all others (put togther!)by a factor of at least 3!

      I remember this form my Geography exams - some time ago, but it couldnt have changed THAT much. In some small areas of London or birmingham it may be the case, but nationally, Muslims only make up circa 5% of the population.
      RedRed
      Dont just swallow the blue pill.

      Comment


      • #33
        RedRed,

        I hope you're right but I think you aren't.

        Just like chiniese people never die (in chinatown in France).
        It's very strage that you can find a 107 years old man looking like a 50 years old man. When someone dies, they bring someone else to take his identity.
        No country really knows how many immigrants are in. The legal numbers hardly say anything.

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        • #34
          Expansion/Conquest

          I have to agree with some of Dogberts points here.

          20 years ago there were approx 7-8% Albanians in Macedonia. Now there are officially 25% of 2.3 mill citizens of my country. A lot of them (cca 150.000) were granted citizenship in 93-94 by the Government to save them from the opression in Kosovo. And i say that the former president should be shot for that, but who listens to me eh? .... That caused an enormous demographic change, which could (WILL) have dire consequences for the others here.

          The average Albanian family has cca 7-8 children. The average non-Albanian (Macedonians, Serbs, Turks etc) has 2-3 children. If you go to the biggest open market in Skopje you`ll see hundreds of 9-13 yrs old Albanian children, dressed in worn ragged clothes selling smuggled cigarettes, alcohol etc. I`m not saying that they dont care for their children, but IMHO we think in very different ways. Before i decide that i will have children, i`ll think about the life that me and my wife can provide for them. I`d rather have 2 children that can have a decent education, clothes and food than 8 that wont have clothes to wear and be on their own from the age of 8-9.

          Granted, there are exceptions (i know some very educated, friendly, emancipated Albanians) but the majority of muslims (excluding Turks) _SEEM_ to me like they`re on a conquest.

          The number of children in 1st grade school is 60% Albanians and 40% percent others (which i think is a good thing, since until a few years ago only 50% of the Albanian kids went to school, a very small percentage of that were girls). This shows that the number of young Albanians outnumbers the others even now, i`m afraid to imagine what that percentage will be in 10-20 years from now.

          The point in this long winded post? I`m afraid that we will be overrun by Muslims in the near future. I dont think that it will be any different in other countries where Muslims are a minority (obviously it will happen sooner in smaller countries).

          Oh yeah, the number of Mosques is rising at an alarming pace. I wouldnt be surprised if there are the same number of mosques as there are churches (most of the churches are at least several centuries old, unlike the majority of mosques which are rather new, perhaps 70% are less than a century old).
          Last edited by omegaRED; 18 March 2002, 06:05.
          Seth, are you ok? I`m peachy Kate. The world is my oyster. - Seth Gecko

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          • #35
            Christian Churches outnumber all others (put togther!)by a factor of at least 3!
            That may be true but they are so secularized and denominationalized that they can't even agree on who God is much less agree that they might have a common enemy.

            I think I read somewhere that there was over 3000 different religionist denomations. Just do a Yahoo search on the word denominations.

            Joel

            Oh and another thing. While Muslims are allowed freely to build Mosgue in predominantly Christian countries, Christians are not allowed to build churches in predominantly Muslim countries. They are not even allowed to fix up the ones they do have. In fact many are being destoryed.
            Last edited by Joel; 18 March 2002, 06:23.
            Libertarian is still the way to go if we truly want a real change.

            www.lp.org

            ******************************

            System Specs: AMD XP2000+ @1.68GHz(12.5x133), ASUS A7V133-C, 512MB PC133, Matrox Parhelia 128MB, SB Live! 5.1.
            OS: Windows XP Pro.
            Monitor: Cornerstone c1025 @ 1280x960 @85Hz.

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            • #36
              look, never worry about the numbers of Muslims and them smuggling in their relatives and eating their dead!
              (One comment to make on that though... Perhaps the reason that there are fewer churches these days are that most Christians DONT GO TO CHURCH. They (and ME) cant be bothered to get off their ARSES and support their local church, of course they will close.... they need to be supported to stay open. If the Muslim faith is vibrant enough to maintain/grow its following well that is just 'market forces' at play! )


              That is going off topic a bit....

              Where we were last was discussing an invasion of Iraq by the US/UN(Pwah!)/some sort of alliance (double Pwah!)

              Intrestingly enough, I was reading today in the Independant that Clare Short (A Labour Cabinet Minister ) has threatend to resign , if the UK supports the US in an 'offensive war' against Iraq. This name is added to the 2 others in the cabinet, along with almost 100 Labour back benchers....

              All of them are calling on Blair to follow the European line in this.
              RedRed
              Dont just swallow the blue pill.

              Comment


              • #37
                Yea and when something does happen they will be the first in line screaming why didn't we take care of this already.

                Joel
                Libertarian is still the way to go if we truly want a real change.

                www.lp.org

                ******************************

                System Specs: AMD XP2000+ @1.68GHz(12.5x133), ASUS A7V133-C, 512MB PC133, Matrox Parhelia 128MB, SB Live! 5.1.
                OS: Windows XP Pro.
                Monitor: Cornerstone c1025 @ 1280x960 @85Hz.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Joel
                  Yea and when something does happen they will be the first in line screaming why didn't we take care of this already.

                  Joel
                  Oh, then why isn't it a good idea to invade Russia to secure nuclear warheads, nuke China/India/Pakistan, etc. etc. etc. as well, according to that logic?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    As DZeus says, the standards you impose for one country must be the same for all.

                    It does appear that america is putting the squeeze on the rest of the world to sit on the countries IT, UNILATERLATERLY has decided are an 'axis of evil'.

                    I am sure I dont know the whole story, however what I do know is that the US tried to get support for action against KOREA - a country which is the 'gentlemans outfitters' of intermediate range balistic missiles for ANY country willing to pay (Pakistan - the NoDong (1500 Km Range, I believe), for example). It dropped its physical threat to Korea when Red China told Bush, in no uncertain terms (I watched the speech), to BACK OFF.

                    As I said before, it appears that the US (George Jnr and Dicke Chainey in particular) has a problem with Iraq. This is not entirely shared by the rest of the world. There are MANY more leaders and MORE significant potential trouble spots round the world. Godammit, AMERICA has refused to comply with more UN resolutions than Iraq, in the past 10 years!

                    RedRed
                    Dont just swallow the blue pill.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      You know RedRed you're right, us dumb Americans we don't know anything. Since we don't we ought to just pull all of tropps back home and let the rest of the world take care of itself for a change. And when we are asked for our help we'll just say duh we're too dumb, just ask that guy over there in that netrual country of Ireland he has all the answers.

                      Joel
                      Libertarian is still the way to go if we truly want a real change.

                      www.lp.org

                      ******************************

                      System Specs: AMD XP2000+ @1.68GHz(12.5x133), ASUS A7V133-C, 512MB PC133, Matrox Parhelia 128MB, SB Live! 5.1.
                      OS: Windows XP Pro.
                      Monitor: Cornerstone c1025 @ 1280x960 @85Hz.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Joel
                        You know RedRed you're right, us dumb Americans we don't know anything. Since we don't we ought to just pull all of tropps back home and let the rest of the world take care of itself for a change. And when we are asked for our help we'll just say duh we're too dumb, just ask that guy over there in that netrual country of Ireland he has all the answers.

                        Joel
                        Good idea actually. Disband the NATO and transform the UN into a capable presence with some actual military power that can make decisions based on the point of view not based on that of a single country.

                        Yes, I know I'm talking about a utopia (in some people's eyes). That doesn't mean that it's a bad idea directly, does it?

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                        • #42
                          You know RedRed you're right, us dumb Americans we don't know anything. Since we don't we ought to just pull all of tropps back home and let the rest of the world take care of itself for a change. And when we are asked for our help we'll just say duh we're too dumb, just ask that guy over there in that netrual country of Ireland he has all the answers.
                          The real problem is that the US goes where nobody wants them (case in point, Iraq. Even Kuwait said that they oppose military action). But we do it so often that maybe not even coming when asked would be better.

                          Speaking of minding our own business: Why is it that Korea is evil for selling missiles, but we're innocent when we supply Israel, the Contras, Columbia.........
                          Gigabyte P35-DS3L with a Q6600, 2GB Kingston HyperX (after *3* bad pairs of Crucial Ballistix 1066), Galaxy 8800GT 512MB, SB X-Fi, some drives, and a Dell 2005fpw. Running WinXP.

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                          • #43
                            But we do it so often that maybe not even coming when asked would be better.
                            You know I would love to see them say no just once just to see how the rest of the world would react.

                            Joel
                            Libertarian is still the way to go if we truly want a real change.

                            www.lp.org

                            ******************************

                            System Specs: AMD XP2000+ @1.68GHz(12.5x133), ASUS A7V133-C, 512MB PC133, Matrox Parhelia 128MB, SB Live! 5.1.
                            OS: Windows XP Pro.
                            Monitor: Cornerstone c1025 @ 1280x960 @85Hz.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              We already did, and they already did. The US was voted off of the UN Human Rights committee.
                              Gigabyte P35-DS3L with a Q6600, 2GB Kingston HyperX (after *3* bad pairs of Crucial Ballistix 1066), Galaxy 8800GT 512MB, SB X-Fi, some drives, and a Dell 2005fpw. Running WinXP.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Wombat
                                The real problem is that the US goes where nobody wants them (case in point, Iraq. Even Kuwait said that they oppose military action). But we do it so often that maybe not even coming when asked would be better.

                                Speaking of minding our own business: Why is it that Korea is evil for selling missiles, but we're innocent when we supply Israel, the Contras, Columbia.........
                                Just reason we went into Kuwait was that Iraqi would have been sitting on close to 50% of the worlds oil supply and that would have adversly effected the worlds economy if Saddam decide to **** around with the supply.

                                As for the missile comment....a Ballistic missile is alot different then supplying small arms or Tanks to a country. With a Missile you can attach Nuclear/Chemical/Biological warheard to it and kill thousands of people with it. You could do the same with a Tank....but its a hell of alot harder and at least the people have somewhat of chance of fighting back...

                                One last thing....I'm starting to get tired of all these policital postings....I can't wait to go back to taking about matrox hardware and flamming trolls when SOON comes out

                                Scott
                                Why is it called tourist season, if we can't shoot at them?

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