Question for those with Bible knowledge (NO RELIGIOUS ARGUMENTS)

[Reverend Maynard]

Howdy all. I want to preface this with a reafirmation of the title, I don't care to discuss religion, religious beliefs, or anything of that nature. My question has to do with a certain character in the bible, Jacob.

Now I know nothing about the bible, which is why I'm here. Very often when I meet *highly* religious people the first thing out of their mouths is that I have a "mighty powerfull" bible/christian/etc name. I was even asked once, by my friends dentist, if God had called me Israel yet. Needless to say I just kind of stared at him and moved on to another subject.

What I am looking for is what the bible has to say about this Jacob/Israel character. I've always been curious so if you have any links or explanations of any sort I'd like to hear them. If there are different interpretations of Jacob/Israel's story, by different people or different religions, I would be very interested in how they differ and why.

[The PIT]

I can see this one developing into a flame war. How many posts does one reckon it will take.

[Drizzt]

Let me find my bible and I'll tell you.

[Technoid]

Joel will close it as soon as he get's online and sees it

[Drizzt]

Sorry Techn, but I can't fin nothing offensive in what the rev. has asked.
And I think Joel is smart enough to appreciate free of speaking, don't you too?

[Rakido]

Hi Rev,

did a quick search and found this and
this


Rakido

[Gurm]

If you don't feel like following links, this is very simple. However, before I explain this, I think you need to hang out with new people. Anyone that would crack jokes like that is a loony. LOOOOOOOOOONY.

Ok, Abraham (remember him, first Jew, father of the nation of Israel, etc. etc.?) had a son - Isaac. Isaac had a son Jacob.

Now Abraham and Isaac were blessed and stuff, but G-d supposedly started working with Jacob. Jacob was leading his people around and came upon a strange man, and they wrestled all day and all night and finally when the man could not best him, it turns out that the man was really G-d... and that he blessed Jacob mightily. He's the one that was called "Israel", and the nation was named after him - after the wrestling incident.

Now... *sigh* he also had a son Joseph, who went to Egypt and started THAT whole mess. So it's very complex. Suffice it to say that the people you've been running into need some HELP.

- Gurm

[Reverend Maynard]

Gurm, most of the people I have heard that from is people I meet at work. I work at Best Buy and I often get that whole powerful bible name speech when I introduce myself to customers, one of my co-workers even said that some time back when she started.

[KvHagedorn]

Jacob also swindled his older brother out of his inheritance. Makes you wonder, huh? Then there was this David fellow who stole another man's wife to add to his harem of many.. funny who God tends to favor, eh? Well, I'm off to go rip someone off today in search of God's blessings.

[GT98]

Originally posted by Reverend Maynard
Gurm, most of the people I have heard that from is people I meet at work. I work at Best Buy and I often get that whole powerful bible name speech when I introduce myself to customers, one of my co-workers even said that some time back when she started.

I guess your forum name is related to your real name ?

[Reverend Maynard]

Between Rakido's links and Gurm's quick breakdown I think my curiosity is taken care of for now. Thanks guys.

Oh and KvH, better watch it with the swindling or an angel might just come down and beat you silly eh, then you would have to change your name. The angel would prbably take your post count too, just to screw with you.

[KvHagedorn]

Yes, I apologize for any perceived insult to Israelites or others.. just an ironic thought there.

[ChenSoft]

None Taken

[Gurm]

No offense taken.

- Gurm

[Dogbert]

32:22And he rose up that night, and took his two wives, and his two handmaids, and his eleven children, and passed over the ford of the Jabbok. 32:23And he took them, and sent them over the stream, and sent over that which he had. 32:24And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. 32:25And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was strained, as he wrestled with him. 32:26And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 32:27And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 32:28And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for thou hast striven with God and with men, and hast prevailed. 32:29And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. 32:30And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for, said he, I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. 32:31And the sun rose upon him as he passed over Penuel, and he limped upon his thigh. 32:32Therefore the children of Israel eat not the sinew of the hip which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day: because he touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh in the sinew of the hip.

It took me a short while to find it in English (I'm used to the Hebrew version ).
Anyway, the "man" Jacob has fought wasn't the almighty himself but an angel. When said "striven with god and with men" the meaning is god(s), in the meaning of god and his celestial servants.