Whos too blame ???

[mutz]

...I vote (if I may), Dogooders because:

- no other life form has dogooders other than man

- dysfunctions of the other three appear to be primarily the product of dogooders, whether in the guise of politicians, priests, doctors, whatever, you can finish the list.

Man's law and order, for the majority, serves cleverly cloaked personal interests, so the issue is, whose law and order are you referring to?

Evolution is a process of trial and error, survival of the fitest. Crocodiles have been at it for 250 million years, man's "society" for about 40 thousand.

What are the factors in man that enable him to directly and indirectly destroy everything in his path, and imagine he is doing "good"? Wouldn't it more accurately be called suicide?

What arrogance is it of man that he thinks he can delineate law and order for all life forms and species?

Who appointed the United States of America as the torch-bearer of freedom, law and order?

Doesn't the perpetrator often appoint himself as the authority and enforcer?

Who prefers threatening to shoot people over talking to them? Parents, teachers, or just the "authorities"?

When Granny cooked the food, it was with love and it was tasty and nourishing. When MacDonalds cooks, it's for the money, period. You fill your gut, but you don't feel nourished. Give the kids five bucks and get rid of them to MacDonalds. Nourishment is more than vitamins.

But what's the point here, idle frustration or is somebody tryng to get to the root of something?

[Indiana]

Wulfman: Still the point remains that the major pool for those elements in the natural nourishment is meat. Some other less known factors are also mainly found in meat.
A real vegetarian has to be really careful with his diet and/or take pills to get all needed vitamins/cofactors as this is not as it was intended by nature.

And the point is not only if something is in a certain kind of food, but also if it is resorbed by the intestines. Spinach e.g. contains lots of iron, unfortunately it is not very well resorbed. Eat one steak and you'd have to eat spinach until you're vomiting to get a similar amount of iron.
It all boils down to this: unnatural nourishment is unhealthy in most cases. This is not only true for man, of course: Feeding meat and bone meal to cows that ARE strictly vegetarian by nature is IMO a crime. No wonder that we get results like BSE with this...

And being strictly vegetarian while being pregnant is known among physicians as cause for severe brain damages of the newborn child. This behaviour is as much selfish from a pregnant woman as if she would continue to smoke and/or drink.

[PowerHungry]

I'm suprised no one said Microsoft yet!

So I'll say it: "Its Microsoft's fault!"

[az]

I'll say it's the parents. Sure it's not all their fault, but parents are the ones to raise their children, teach them morals, etc. The main problems IMHO are that many parents don't have time for their children anymore, because they have to work (or exercise, or whatever), and that the media is saying "active" parents (i.e. those that don't have time for their children - face it, you can't both go to work and to the gym and properly raise your children) are cool. Monetary wealth has way too high priority in people's minds nowadays, so people won't work half-days or one of the parents stops working, to have enough time to raise the children, even though they would have enough money left to lead a good life.

To blame it on teachers is just poor. Teachers have no influence on children before they go to school, and even then, a child is in school for half the day only, so parents should have more than enough time to educate their children a little. Parents send their kids off to school and think that with that, they send responibility for all of their childrens' behaviour etc. to school also. And of course they don't have time or energy left to really care about their children after working (or working out) all day (both of them).

I'm not one to say "the woman belongs in the kitchen", but this really has advantages. Woman's emancipation, as necessary as it was, has brought a big problem with it: if both parents are working, none has time for the child. So: "One of the parents belongs in the kitchen!"

AZ

[mutz]

...right AZ, but isn't it a vicious circle with each generation being a product of the last? Has our intellect gotten ahead of our biology?

Our biology is that the man hunts and gathers while the woman bears and minds the hearth.

Modern intellect, or brain programming, has the roles confused, because less and less love in the family creates an unsatiable hunger for whatever substitute the child got for love, be that money, chocolate or even getting smacked around.

The biology is still trying to fulfill its role and the mind is screwing it up, resulting in the war of the sexes, frustration, rage, perversion and blame.

The question is where and how do you break the vicious circle?

My only answer is in oneself...

[az]

Still, technology, and the simple MASS of humans, are WAY ahead of our intellect and (as product of the latter) our social skills and systems.

And you're right, you have to break the circle in yourself. But that's of course easier said than done.

Oh, BTW, the woman gathered Hunt took long, and didn't yield enough to survive on that alone, but was - like indiana pointed out - essential for health, so the women had to gather.

AZ

[thop]

honestly it's all your fault.

[az]

If my kid gets to be a bad kid, It sure as hell is to a big degree my fault.

AZ

[Agent31]

it must be everyone else

- "how can it be my fault? I'm just one person. I look after my own business, so it must be everyone elses fault."

[mutz]

...seems almost everyone, male or female is only interested in gathering now...

Gathering money, fame, power, etc., etc.

The monster alien bozos out of Independence Day are definitely to blame for everything!!

[Joel]

Monetary wealth has way too high priority in people's minds nowadays, so people won't work half-days or one of the parents stops working, to have enough time to raise the children, even though they would have enough money left to lead a good life.

I really wish that was true for all working couples because I know that it isn't true for my wife and me. We basicaly live from paycheck to paycheck. I know some will pop up, who know absolutely nothing about me, and start carrying on about 'what about all those credit cards or those fancy cars or that fancy house'. Well let me set the record straight. I have no credit card debt. I drive a 12 year old car that is paid for and has 164,000 miles on it. We bought my wife's car, used, 3 years ago because the other car was spending more time in the shop than on the road. We live in a decent house in a decent nieghborhood so that our kids can go to a relatively decent public school, that is all the time asking for finacial help from the parents saying they have no money, since we can't afford private school. And each year the cost of living out paces our pay raises forcing us to constantly look for ways of cutting back on the few things we do have or do outside the home or other means of bringing in an additional income. We spend as much time as possible with our children. That's one of the reason that my wife became a co-leader for a Girl Scout Troop so that her and my daughter would have a little something they could do together outside the home. We do not belong to any spas, country clubs or gyms. Believe me if it was as simple and you think it is we would have done it long ago.

Now don't get me wrong I am not trying to shuck my responsibility as a parent, far from it, I am just trying to show that it is not as simple as some think it is. I don't know whether you have childern or not but I have learned that it is always easier for someone who doesn't to tell those who do what they are suppose to do but it's a different story when they have childern of their own. And as Greebe point out I am seeing this from an American perspective.

Joel

[Sasq]

It's not so far different here Joel, we have no kids yet, and in this country we are struggling on a single income.

My wife is due to get a job in the next few months (we're heading back to Oz in a month or so for our wedding ceremony - yes we're married but no ceremony yet). Plan is 3 years of both of us working before kids, just so we can afford for one person to be at home till the kids hit school - day care is still almost non-existant in this country.
One of us will have to work full time and the other work at lest part-time just to cope with education costs + house. We will spend as much time with our kids as possible. But the 1960's mum at home bakeing cookies is not a practicality for us.

[mutz]

...don't be offended Joel. Sometimes people are a bit fast on the draw. Doesn't matter if you are in Tennessee or Hong Kong, everybody's gotta work out his or her life in his or her context...

[Alice]

Originally posted by Indiana


Actually, solely eating vegetables is the worst thing you can do to your brain. The brain needs B12, Folsäure and some other things that nearly only can be found in meat. The human nature is not to be a vegetarian and it is unhealthy to do so. (However I do agree that nowadays most people are eating much too much meat which is not heathy as well).

Well, I think the question here is not wether you eat meat or not, beside it's unquestionable that meat contains elements that are really important, even if they can be fairly well substituted with a well balanced diet, with pulses, vegetables, cereals, etc... anyways, as I was saying, the question raised by Leech (I think) is not about eating meat, but rather about eating garbage, food that is so rich in carbohidrates and fat, that two Burgers can easily top all your energy requirements for a day and a half... badly! Plus, you'll be hungry!

Edit: Im not even going to mention what I think of parents who take their kids to McDonald´s. It´s the PARENTS FAULT!!!

[Dogbert]

Hehe,

/me is so happy and proud, I'll have home cooking all the way