Take a few minutes today....

[mdhome]

My condolences to our American cousins, but Dogbert please shut up and dont use this event to mouth off, after-all Britain (A European country) has been behind the US all the way on this.


REgards MD

[mutz]

...wellll, md, let's not be too hasty. If you were in Doggie's shoes, you would need to let off some steam too...

[Buuri]

Originally posted by mdhome
My condolences to our American cousins, but Dogbert please shut up and dont use this event to mouth off, after-all Britain (A European country) has been behind the US all the way on this.

Umm.. maybe not "all the way". Weren't there a recent study showing that majority of British people don't think that UK should get involved in USA's vendetta to Irak? Althought officially they are still, but I wonder how long does it take Blair to realize who the voters are.

[The PIT]

Originally posted by Buuri


Umm.. maybe not "all the way". Weren't there a recent study showing that majority of British people don't think that UK should get involved in USA's vendetta to Irak? Althought officially they are still, but I wonder how long does it take Blair to realize who the voters are.

Most in the UK would support it if the UN decided to support any action taken by America. Otherwise if America went off without UN support most people would be against it.

[GT98]

Originally posted by Buuri


Umm.. maybe not "all the way". Weren't there a recent study showing that majority of British people don't think that UK should get involved in USA's vendetta to Irak?

I personally find it pretty bad that media and the like have to boil down everything to bare minum of understanding. I wonder if people would still be saying that the US has a vendetta agaist Iraq if G.W. Bush wasn't in office and saying he is finishing up what his daddy didn't . What they don't relize that Iraq is threat, no matter who is the Oval Office and Europeans IHMO need to get their head out of the sand before they wind up getting taken over by Extremist Musliums because they want to appease them. Didn't what happened 63 years ago teach you anything?

[mdhome]

Originally posted by Buuri


Umm.. maybe not "all the way". Weren't there a recent study showing that majority of British people don't think that UK should get involved in USA's vendetta to Irak? Althought officially they are still, but I wonder how long does it take Blair to realize who the voters are.

A Vendetta is one thing, but seeing as Iraq havent been blamed for the death and destruction on 11/sept then the British people cant be expected to support an attack on them unless there is justification for doing so. We have stood behind the US when it came to legitimate anti-terrorism relating to this event but we dont hand out blank cheques.

Regards Michael

[mutz]

...ya know, it all depends on where you've been and where you are. You can bet Dogbert has a different vision of life and what should and should not be than someone sitting in Toronto, Hoboken or Berlin.

Europeans have been through the mill for much longer than WWII. Though they have brought much on themselves, They've had the living shit pounded out of them with millions and millions dead. They've finally learned some moderation and a great deal of caution. America may have that yet to learn. There are lots of crosses over hip-shots up on Boot Hill.

Many people have no experience that enables them to distinguish between the movies, TV and what the reality is in some far off foreign place. A TV is not a teleporter. You're not likely to get a bullet in the head watching TV, unless perhaps your neghbor thinks it's too loud.

Before jumping to conclusions, go sit at the other guy's desk, go walk in her shoes, go squat in his hut, go eat with his family, go listen to his problems, talk about your own...

How many people come storming in MURC all puffed up, emptying their spleen justified by some review they read at punk.com saying Parhelia is junk when they have never been anywhere near one? How many start off in rage over some problem, just to have Doc, Greebe, or somebody out of the blue, post back "Yeah, I had that, just do this"? Poof! Have you ever solved a problem in the initial frustration and rage, or only after calming down, defining the problem, asking somebody?

It's not any different in anything else or anywhere else. Next time you vote, buy something, ignore the hype and take a good look at what you're going for. Once it's done, you are pretty much stuck with it 'til next round...

[Buuri]

Originally posted by GT98
I personally find it pretty bad that media and the like have to boil down everything to bare minum of understanding. I wonder if people would still be saying that the US has a vendetta agaist Iraq if G.W. Bush wasn't in office and saying he is finishing up what his daddy didn't . What they don't relize that Iraq is threat, no matter who is the Oval Office

According to UN, it is anything but certain that Iraq actually has any weapons of mass destruction.

In an interview given this week to Newsweek Nelson Mandela said that George W. Bush is a serious threat to world peace. Many agree. Many more than you'd like.

[Dogbert]

I don't want to rant or wash my dirty laundry here, just give you some food for thought.

George W Bush is propably a serious thread to world peace. ok.
Now, what is the definition of world peace in the first place ?
Is the fact that the president of the security council is Sirya - a non democratic country which meddles in Lebanon's affairs, hosts al-qaeda and the hisbolla to mention a few, gives anyone here the secure feeling peace should give ?
Does the fact that many countries continuesly arm themselves with weapons of mass destruction sits well with our definition of peace ? In the world of politics, this situation of non-war can last ages without a single casualty. On the other hand, some people don't think that living sitting on a gunpowder keg is a life in he firstplace.

I'd say that George W Bush is a huge threat to the current world non-war situation. World peace, at least according to my disctionary is under Utopia.
Europe feels very secure in this state of things, they always did as politics are their way. On the other hand, when the guns start singing, the politicians become silent and call for the 'world cop' to come. See east-central Europe. What would happen if next time the U.S president tell the U.N and Europe to take care of themselves ?
For better or worse, the U.S is writing a paycheck to half the world each and every year. Half the ME is depending on this American paycheck, so yes, the U.S has some extra rights here.

[Dr Mordrid]

I think the U.N. is on a dangerous track as far as the U.S. citizenry is concerned. Over the years no small amout of our populace has been of the opinion that the U.N. is pretty much useless save for a few humanitarian agencies under its auspices.

In point of fact a sizeable percentage of the U.S. public feels we should pull out of the U.N. and use that Manhattan real estate for something useful.

As far as preventing war or conflict; the U.N. seems to try the hardest to prevent conflict that would do the most good. I sure as hell didn't see much from them in regards to preventing the genocides of the Rowandan civil war by inserting peacekeepers and they sure as Hell waited until the Balkans were totally out of control before acting assertively

IMO Bush will most likely give the U.N. and Iraq one more chance to get unfettered inspections started. When this fails, and with Saddam Hussein in control it's bound to, then the U.N. and our "allies" will have three choices;

Lead, follow or get the f***ing Hell out of the way because this train's leaving the station.

Dr. Mordrid

[Buuri]

Originally posted by Dogbert
See east-central Europe. What would happen if next time the U.S president tell the U.N and Europe to take care of themselves ?

Actually those weren't U.S. military missions, but NATO's. There's a huge political difference.

Originally posted by Dogbert
On the other hand, when the guns start singing, the politicians become silent and call for the 'world cop' to come.

Yes, and that "cop" should be UN, not any single country or govenment.

[Dogbert]

I don't know how many of you have seen the pictures of dancing happy celebrating palestinians right after the planes hit the twin towers.

You propably ask yourself why and find a myriad of answers.
Let me just give you 1 little reason why they shouldn't have.

[Buuri]

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
I think the U.N. is on a dangerous track as far as the U.S. citizenry is concerned. Over the years no small amout of our populace has been of the opinion that the U.N. is pretty much useless save for a few humanitarian agencies under its auspices.

The cause of this problem is obvious. There is only one super power around, and that won't play with UN rules. Why? Because it's (U.S.'s) opinions aren't guaranteed to pass. Large countries like Russia have veto to everything, and that pisses U.S. off.

[Dogbert]

Originally posted by Buuri


Yes, and that "cop" should be UN, not any single country or govenment.

This reminds me a joke and a non - joke:

I was guarding in a base once where there were also female soldiers. The guys had weapons and the girls had radios.
Now there is a procedure when you see some thing suspicious:

Stop, who's there ?
Stop, what is the password ?
Stop or I shoot (60 degrees high in the air)
.
.
.

Now for the girls:
Stop, who's there ?
Stop, what is the password ?
Stop or I call someone on the radio

Now that's the UN for you.


The not so funny example - proof ?
The three kidnapped soldiers in north Israel were kidnapped from Israelu territory with supervision and HELP of the Unifil.
The UN filmed, helped evacuate hisbolla vehicles and lied to Israeli government and to the soldiers families. You don't hear about it cause it's old news for the world, but the story is still going on here and there are new developments once in a while.
Seems like the UN went against the Geneva threaty in this story so far. The UN !?!?!?!? Yes !

[mutz]

...hey Doc, better get outa tha sun. Your neck's gettin red...