Speaking the Truth gets you jailed in France.

[Gurm]

Mutz,

Actually Jesus was just being a good Jew. One of the primary tenets of Judaism is that you argue a lot. You don't get to BE a Rabbi (which Jesus quite clearly was) until you have won in argumentation against the sitting council of Rabbis (this is a GROSS oversimplification of the process, but hey).

I like Judaism. There's no bullshit. Nobody ever killed anybody in Moses' name.

- Gurm

[mutz]

...don't think Jesus was ever a good Jew, Christ certainly not.

Maybe not in Moses name, but in the name of what is all that madness going on in Isreal?

[SpiralDragon]

Originally posted by Joel
Christianity is viewed by some as paganism and of the worshiping of many Gods because of the concept of the Trinity. (Which is a concept that I even have a hard time understanding even though I was brought up in a Christian home.) That is partly how Islam got started because of Mohamand's misunderstanding of that concept also. Plus his claim to have received the true word of God throught the Angel Gaberial. Some Christians pray no different to 'The Father, the Son and and the Holy Ghost' than Muslims pray to Allaha and his great servant Mohamand. Plus they also believe that since Mohamand was the last great servant of God then what he claims to have been told should nulify everything else that had come before or thereafter since there would be not others.

Joel

Disclaimer: I don't claim to be 100% correct this is just how I understand it.

PS: I believe that any religion that advocates hate is not right. Jesus in Matthew 5:43-48 of the New King James Version tells us to love our enemy.

i am glad you added the disclaimer.... the quraan strictly specifies that mohammad was a MAN and nothing more..(well just that he is the mesenger of god) but the point is that he is a MAN and not a person to be worshiped or prayed to just remeberd.. the problem is that people tend to over glorify figures of history

2. the quaraan does not say that all other religions or anything that was or will be should be nulified... maybe so for the polytheistic religions but not of christianity or judaisem...as a mater of fact the quraan says that christianity and judeisem should be respected.... but again peole love to twist things around for thier favour... so they go about missinterpreting things for thir own reasons...

3. and this is the most important part and the greatest missconception of the western world ISLAM DOES NOT TEACH OR ADVOCATE HATE.... the hate comes from the hearts of men a long time of missconception not to mention ignorance.....

any religion is flawd by two things; firstly and mostly by MAN and secondly by Woman

[SpiralDragon]

i like to look at the holy trinity in this way; Law, love and truth... unfurtunatly the three things that we in this age still dont have

[KvHagedorn]

Mutz, I believe somewhere you stated you were an atheist. If I am not mistaken, why did you decide you were an atheist?

[SpiralDragon]

Originally posted by mutz
[BMaybe not in Moses name, but in the name of what is all that madness going on in Isreal? [/B]

that.... well that is just god's private litle joke..... as is our existance..... other wise i cant think of any other reason why two people who belive in the same god would comite such kind of atrocities against eachother......


this reminds me of an old joke.... the pope dies and reaches the geats of heaven.... he rings the bell and out comes st. peet.....

peet: how my i help you

pope: i am the pope open up

peet: i am sory i dont understand..

peet: just go tell god that the pope is here and he wants to get in


so peet heads off to tell god... he finds god siting on a cloud with jesus next to him and they are both having a great time...

peet: god their is a man at the gate claiming to be the pope and he wants to come in...

god: the pope.... now what can that be..

and sudenly jesus erupts with laughter to god's amazment

god: what is the matter son... do you know this man

jesus: indeed i do...

god: well out with it

jesus: do you remeber that business we started 2000 years ago... well its still going on....

[mutz]

...atheist? Me an atheist? I'm not even sure what an atheist is. All I really know is that I am me, and all that I have lived and experienced. Maybe I'm spiritual, don't know. I know that God is, is in everything and everybody. Not on a throne, not in judgement, not a father, not some distant figure. He's as much in a church, in a tempel, in a mosque as much as he's in the hearts of the people there present. He's in the fields and the flowers, in the trees and the bees, in the cattle and pigs, in the food on the plate, in the rats in the sewers, in the birds in the sky, he's life. And he's as much a he as a she. Under God nothing is equal, everything is unique, he never makes the same thing twice.

I've never decided to be anything since I learned that life is a gift to be lived, no more, no less. I might choose something to learn something, but that's all.

Atheism? Tell me what it is and maybe I'll try it out to learn something, but no more...

[KvHagedorn]

I suppose you are not one, then. I guess I was mistaken, then.. you didn't post that..

[Gurm]

mutz:

You're quite mistaken. Jesus was the penultimate rabbi. Nothing he did, nothing he said, nothing he taught in ANY way went against the Judaic Law.

- Gurm

[mutz]

Saint Peter walks into God's office,

"Hey HG, some guy at the gate insists he knows you."

"Knows me? What's his name?"

"Says he's the Pope."

"What, another one? Jeezuz Pete, when are you gonna do something about that damn mail room? I've been sending those guys pink slips for well over a thousand years!"

[mutz]

...I don't know Gurm, I wasn't there, but he sure must have pissed somebody off almighty bad...

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Gurm
mutz:

You're quite mistaken. Jesus was the penultimate rabbi. Nothing he did, nothing he said, nothing he taught in ANY way went against the Judaic Law.

- Gurm

Penultimate? So Jesus was the next-to last Rabbi? So what are all these other fellows since then?

[efty]

Nobody ever killed anybody in Moses' name

Maybe not but they sure killed in God's name...

[mutz]

...Gurm, I wasn't cutting you off back there. I'm not a theologian. I have no academic or intellectual interest in religion or history of religion.

The TRUE version, the RIGHT facts, the FINAL AUTHORITY, etc. has been reason for enough proscription, torture, murder, massacre down the ages. Perhaps in some past life you were the inquistor and I the infidel, no need to perpetuate, to replay the game.

Christ, Buddha, Bhagwan, etc. all mean the same thing, the enlightened one. What he was, what he is, is the message. You "know" if the words are right, no need to pull out a dictionary. Joel's quotations from Matthew, are as new and alive as when they were first spoken. They were first spoken in Aramac, yet you feel their magic in english after two thousand years. If you can't feel them, no reference or certification of their authenticity will help. Christ spoke to hearts and souls, not to minds, as has every enlightened one. The mind is temporal, the soul is eternal. The mind is for checking the bills, to be emptied like the trash when they're paid. Your soul is your wealth and is yours for ever and ever and ever.

So Jesus and Christ were rebels, Christ more so. Whereas Jesus or St. Francis of Assisi may have been in the tempel, the church, they weren't of it. Can't be. Their power is love, which cannot be abused or misused, but oh what a power! Eternal because it belongs to the soul.

Saddam Hussain aspires to temporal, corporal power with its inherent possibility of abuse and misuse. It will die with his body, though there will be those who will try to carry it on until it finally dies under the stacks of bodies.

A Christ will live on in your heart, while Saddam molders in the grave and the history books. History is dead, because it has already happened. You can neither eat it nor wear it, nor get out of the rain under it.

Why argue the Koran, the Talmud, the Torah, the Bible, when you can sit in the sun and munch a halva, laughing with your neighbor?

[Dogbert]

Maybe because Halva is disgusting ?

Besides, you can use history for many things, including hiding from the rain. I guess it's been quite a while since you've held a history book. Those things are damn massive and you can make wonders with paper these days