Reuters: 33 lbs of weapons grade Uranium seized....

[KvHagedorn]

The very idea of left and right is one-dimensional.

[Vlip]

True, but as every graphic it's a simplification of a problem to help discussion and analysis.

It's hard to discuss politic if you try to take into account all the thousand dimensions at the same time.

The right/left analysis is inaccurate, but so are all others.

[SpiralDragon]

joel:

I don't think I said that all Muslims are that way. I am talking about the fundalmentalist and they are the ones we are at war with. But then again I'm not the one spreading the idea that this is a war againist Islam and what it stands for.

i am not spreading the idea that this is a war agains islam just that the way several ppl post here it sure damnd sounds like most of you would like to see muslims earased...
I am against fundementalisem of any kind and i dont like the islamic way of life as it is now...... but i do not see the good in waging a phisical war... that is the easy and dirty way ... there are other ways


Dogbert:

Sometimes war can be good for both sides. Like when one side is continually opressed by a tyranny and is set free by the other (winning) side.

there is a diferance between revolution and war.... it is every opressed persons right to seek his freedom.... but then again ghandi won that freedom for india without advocating bloodshed


KvH:

Says who? Sounds like pan-arabianism to me. Just as much bullshit as any other "ism." Your people do NOT have the right to invade my homeland and act like you fricken own the place. That is not immigration. It is invasion. All the more effective when you bring your subserviant wife(s) in and have a bunch of children under our noses and then get all uppity about your rights and needs and demand to be supported by the society you are destroying. That's much more twisted and damaging than what the British did in India or any other guilt trip you want to lay on Westerners.

i dont think you are very familiar with this i sugest you read it carfully.


Dogbert: what is happening in Isreal/Palestine is a big mistake... it is due to the stuborness of both sides....

Are you planning on having 5 wives and 27 children anytime soon ?

the majority of muslims these days stick to one whife unless they are realy badly educated and live centuries in the past... and muslims are not taking over the world... i am technicly an arab does that make me in to something that is equal to trash? i have one wife that i adore and we are not planing on having any children



Dr. Mordrid

Extremeism is the real enemy. Go too far "right" or "left" and you end up in the same place: totalitarianism.We can quibble within a few degrees of the "center", but it's when the center itself shifts too far in either direction that we get into real trouble

i canot agree more... but there is a way to maintain balance


Joel:

The problem is, is that part of the groups we are talking about believe that is why the US is the "Great Satan" and should be destoryed.

that is the way the minority look at it .. but when said by the majority they mainly meen the US government .... belive me Arabs love the american culture and americans far more than you think... arabs are enfatuated with america.... and most arabs prefer to imigrate to the US rather than some one else... and dig this.. most hizboula and shiaite moslims prefer the US any time... i have always found that ironic and hypocritical but that is the flat truth...... Arabs love the US but most of them hate the government and its way of dealing with them...


Dogbert:

Don't trust that news coverage too much. They come to cover action. They don't usually care for details

you tend to forget that most of the western media is, especialy the US media, is pro-isreali and they tend to leave out the fact that while isreal has WMD the palestinians dont... you want the palestinians not to stop killing isrealis? so do i... i think they are going about it in the wrong way but the israilis are not doing any better... and let us not forget that the israilis have more control over the media than the palestinians do not to mention the better PR...

Vlip: assimilaition is iminant.... but it tends to be harder that you portray it ... especialy when it comes to stuborn stupid lebanese people who are more stuck in the civil war days then the ones still here in lebanon.... but i mostly agree with you....


KvH:

I don't consider myself an American, BTW

nor do i concider my self a lebanese... i prefer to think that i am a citizen of the world... but for one reason or the other that wont happen....

They knock up our women with their kids all the time then abandon them, so eventually some sappy responsible white guy comes along and marries the girl and takes the responsibility.

i had an american professor who was like that... he was expeled.... the thing is that this kind of stuff hapens every where and is not just assosiated with a certain group and should not be so....


Joel:

Liberalism talks up a storm about diversity but wants to try to do everything it can to silence those that speak out againist it. And one of the biggest things that it likes to do is to try and discredit someone's character. In other word speak out againist Liberalism and you are immediatly labeled as a racist.

just like when any one speakes against any other person's/groups ideaology or policy is considered anti-this or ant-that.... like for instance if someone speaks out against american forigne policy he/she is anti-american.... or if someone speaks out against the israeli war against the palestinians he is anti-sematic (i was called that someplace... but you see how can i be anti-semetic when i am one my self???) the thing is that dosent always hold true.. not every one who speaks out against something is anti-somthing...



---------------------

people.. there is a peacefull solution to everything..... if you have balls that is the rode to take and not the one that involves lots of bloodshed...

[SpiralDragon]

ok...

now i would like to apologies for my suden outbursts..... i hope i have not offended anyone...... its just that latly i have not been my self...

[GNEP]

SpiralDragon - a good, well-argued piece. Have to agree with you on many points.

The age-old problem of the liberal: can you tolerate the intolerant?

[Vlip]

people.. there is a peacefull solution to everything..... if you have balls that is the rode to take and not the one that involves lots of bloodshed...

A wise man once said:

"For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill"

Sun-Tzu: The Art of War

[Vlip]

Anyway Spiral, could you please make me a small description on how your country has evolved since the Israeli withdrawal?
What is happening in the country?
What are the challenges?
What is the political system?
How do the various ethnies tolerate each other?

It's always easy to find good information about past events, but nowaday's Lebanon is a bitch to get informed on

[KvHagedorn]

i dont think you are very familiar with this i sugest you read it carfully.

I have no interest in the UN or what it says about anything anymore. It is a completely screwed up organization. That said, there is nothing in the document you linked to which says a nation is obligated to open the floodgates to immigrants for any reason. The only thing it said about freedom of movement is within states, and that individuals have the right to SEEK asylum. In pushover states like canada or switzerland you can seek asylum from anything and they let you in. Just like if you are really in need, some indiscriminate slut will always accomodate you.

[KvHagedorn]

Very interesting what you say about toleration.. I am completely tolerant of everyone, as long as they don't invade my country and try to take what is mine. You liberals have a funny idea about tolerance.. you seem to think that we in the west must tolerate every sort of indignity and theft of our lands and culture.. that we are somehow evil if we do not do this. It makes me think you must be closet masochists or something. These ideas of yours go completely against healthy human nature. I bet you all have been smoking quite a lot of dope (the main reason I'm against it.. it lessens the capacity to think straight.)

[Dogbert]

No Kv, they arent masochists, they are "Neutral".

[SpiralDragon]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
I bet you all have been smoking quite a lot of dope (the main reason I'm against it.. it lessens the capacity to think straight.)

i was about to say the same thing to you


cause you are defenetly not seeing straight.... but i will leave it here and not ramble on if you do the same....

[thop]

ah that reminds me of one futurama episode where Zap meets the neutrals

[SpiralDragon]

Originally posted by Vlip
It's always easy to find good information about past events, but nowaday's Lebanon is a bitch to get informed on

that about sumes it up.... lebanon is a bitch... ....

the situation here is not so great... the withdrawal of the israilies did not bring much change except for the the liberated lands..... the govt is more curupt than befor... the midle class has almost vanished... the gap between poor and rich is great... and there are more poor ppl around.... the christians are proclaiming that they are being victimised (which to some extent is true but excesseivly exagerated) and the muslims are just too dazed and confused to figure out that the leaderes they are folowing have screewed them over countless of times.......

the eductaion here sucks... even high ranking university officials are curupt and sell out on the students.......

just yesterday one student who was a student rep last year was denied admitance by one profesor in to his calss beacuse the student had spoken out against him and several other things on belhalf of the students.... it was not a personla thing and the student rep made that clear.... but the prof is to much of an idiot to udnerstand that.... what has the university doen to fix this problem (since he is the only proff who gives this course) "go finish this course at another university"..........


now take that and skale it up to 20000 and you might come close to how the situation here in leb is like..... i doubt that lebanon will ever come close to being what it was befor..... it will take some dratic changes that no one seems to want... it dont suit thier purpous..... and as befor the civil war there is inflation and bankrupsy and talk that is not tolorant to the difrent sekts her in lebanon... just recently a TV station had been closed down for political reasons......


that is how lebanon is like... dont be fooled by anything else...

[SpiralDragon]

on of the reasons why i am being so critical off all this crap here is beacue i am waiting for the canadian embasy to reply for my request for imigration.... i am tierd of living here and dont see a future for me or for my wife here... we want to move to canada and there should be no reson why we cannot .. uless you are calling me and my wife (whos name hapens to be oussama) a terorist threat.... i am not a terorist... i have never caried a gun in my life... i colect old knives, dagers and sowrds... but thats all i do with them ... i colect them....... am i a terorist.... am i a parasite that wants to leach on to social security... i am a hard worker..... i cant stand a minute with out having to do something.. or else i get depressed..... same for my wife... but not as much as me.... i have many capabilities and talants that are not being put to use here... i want to explor my boundries and see how far i can go... i cant do that here becuse i am not well conected to someone curupt...... am i a terorist?....... i am partly muslim and partly christian........ i have russian, armenian, syrian, iraqi, morocin, palestinian, french and lebanese blood in me... am i a terorist? i have been described as a person with extreemly high potention to do things great.... would you still refuse me entry...... would you still refuse me the dignity of exploiting my talants and doing something great for you and others....... am i a terorist? would you treat me like a second class citizen because i come from an arab nation? would you refuse me the right of enjoying my rights freely? am i a terorist?

[Dogbert]

You're doing it all wrong then.
You can be easily accepted in Canada as a refugee.

Simplest way: Fly to Canada, destroy your papers on the plane, ask to be accepted as refugee as soon as you land.
About 4 hours later you'll have a new life in Canada.