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  • #61
    ...thanks Doc. Just playing example by personal experience.

    I remember time standing still, seeing each letter hit the paper, the never ending chukka-chukka of the decoder/telex, the name Schraub Lorenz in gray on blue, imprinted forever, TOP SECRET, NATO TOP SECRET, COSMOS, CRYPTO TOP SECRET and soforth. I'm following and correlating East Block targetting data from four independent East Block "sources", four columns on a one-time tape decrypted telex. About two meters down the roll:

    "FL-1+MT-MR-LNG.*- LAT.* (McGraw Kasern, Perlacher Forst, Munich, Bavaria, BRD)"

    I'm vaporized and everything dead on a radius Munich to Passau in one shot. Perhaps I would have been luckier than those in Passau, a microsecond opposed to a few days.

    I think I remember four days, maybe longer, seemed like decades, where both sides were armed with a finger ON the button. We knew that so much as a truck backfire on the border would have meant launch, launch everything. We calculated East-West 80% annihilation.

    Nothing you can do but shovel intelligence, watch and wait. Four days, one tiny, tiny mistake, impatience, flip-out. You would now be living, if at all, in the Southern Hemisphere. COLD war?

    Why didn't it happen? Only God knows, literally.

    On a relative scale, Saddam Hussain is a small problem, blown all out of proportion, along with many other things, that need solid solutions that don't further escalate our madness.
    How can you possibly take anything seriously?
    Who cares?

    Comment


    • #62
      Have a friend who was a sub driver during the 1973 Yom Kippur war. It started with the arabs doing a sneak attack on Israel, which was rapidly driven back with the Israeli army taking positions west of the Suez.

      Near the end of this conflict there was a series of events that nearly brought on a US-USSR war, main among them the USSR starting some threatening troop moves and sending a lot of their fleet to sea. This was the closest the US/USSR came to a war after the Cuban missile crisis, though most people don't know how serious it got.

      My friend watched his Captain and the other required officers insert their keys in preparation to fire when the USSR started moving forces. This situation continued for some time until the governments concerned came to their senses. When the stand-down order came down the sub was just one step away from launch

      He still has nightmares about it.

      Saddam becomes a big problem well in scale if he gets a nuke and delivers it where you live. I wouldn't put it 1 inch past him...

      Dr. Mordrid

      Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 8 October 2002, 12:04.
      Dr. Mordrid
      ----------------------------
      An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

      I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

      Comment


      • #63
        ...subs have been a source of amusment a number of times...

        Saddam Hussain is enjoying the attention enormously. If you consider the extent he goes to for his personal security, you have a good idea how far he is from suicidal. If he had a nuke to light, and he lit it, he would be a martyr in dust in a minute, and the fun of his party would be over. I don't think he is such a short term strategist. He's been playing this game for over a decade now...
        How can you possibly take anything seriously?
        Who cares?

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
          Have a friend who was a sub driver during the 1973 Yom Kippur war. It started with the arabs doing a sneak attack on Israel, which was rapidly driven back with the Israeli army taking positions west of the Suez.

          Near the end of this conflict there was a series of events that nearly brought on a US-USSR war, main among them the USSR starting some threatening troop moves and sending a lot of their fleet to sea. This was the closest the US/USSR came to a war after the Cuban missile crisis, though most people don't know how serious it got.

          My friend watched his Captain and the other required officers insert their keys in preparation to fire when the USSR started moving forces. This situation continued for some time until the governments concerned came to their senses. When the stand-down order came down the sub was just one step away from launch

          He still has nightmares about it.

          Saddam becomes a big problem well in scale if he gets a nuke and delivers it where you live. I wouldn't put it 1 inch past him...

          Dr. Mordrid

          That was a huge frustration here cause the Israeli forces were a few KM from conquering Cairo and Damascus when an ORDER fron the U.S president came to stop the attack at once.
          I don't know what he threatened the Israeli government with (maybe to feed them to the russians) but the Israeli tanks stopped a few KM short of Cairo and Damascus. Sometimes I like to think what would the ME look like without/with a different Sirya.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by GT98
            Hmm is this the same movie where there is a baby born after the nuclear attack and is the last one left after everyone dies from Radiation?
            Not as far as I remember. It is the one looking at Sheffield during/after a nuclear attack, as the threads of civilization fall apart. Apparently it was quite accurate in its depiction of the immediate carnage and subsequent slow death/illness from radiation, and food shortages. People generally fall into anarchy, with a vague but uiltimately hopeless effort at martial law.

            If you haven't seen it, try hard to get hold of a copy. I am not saying that it's entertaining, but it is something that I think everyone should see.

            A friend still has a copy of the "Protect and Survive" leaflet - looks almost laughable now until you stop and think for a second.

            gnep
            DM says: Crunch with Matrox Users@ClimatePrediction.net

            Comment


            • #66
              For another movie that might make you think, try Das Experiment. I saw it in the theater, and it was the absolute most intensive movie I ever watched.

              AZ

              P.S.: Sorry for this being off topic..

              [EDIT: You probably shouldn't read too many of the comments, or the plot of the film, because I think it's really important to watch the plot unfold]

              [EDIT 2: The movie is based on the stanford university experiment, but it shifts the plot to germany and extends it to what might have become if the original experiment hadn't been aborted]
              Last edited by az; 9 October 2002, 02:59.
              There's an Opera in my macbook.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by GNEP


                Not as far as I remember. It is the one looking at Sheffield during/after a nuclear attack, as the threads of civilization fall apart. Apparently it was quite accurate in its depiction of the immediate carnage and subsequent slow death/illness from radiation, and food shortages. People generally fall into anarchy, with a vague but uiltimately hopeless effort at martial law.

                If you haven't seen it, try hard to get hold of a copy. I am not saying that it's entertaining, but it is something that I think everyone should see.

                A friend still has a copy of the "Protect and Survive" leaflet - looks almost laughable now until you stop and think for a second.

                gnep
                Hmm sounds like the same moive....I remeber seening it when I was kid back in later 80's...on PBS in the States
                Why is it called tourist season, if we can't shoot at them?

                Comment


                • #68
                  Probably was then. It was made in the early/mid 80s I think for TV.
                  DM says: Crunch with Matrox Users@ClimatePrediction.net

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Dogbert


                    That was a huge frustration here cause the Israeli forces were a few KM from conquering Cairo and Damascus when an ORDER fron the U.S president came to stop the attack at once.
                    I don't know what he threatened the Israeli government with (maybe to feed them to the russians) but the Israeli tanks stopped a few KM short of Cairo and Damascus. Sometimes I like to think what would the ME look like without/with a different Sirya.
                    The reason for that order was that the US & USSR were about one fart from incinerating the world. If Israel had moved into Cairo & Damascus the USSR would likely have responded against them. In fact it was USSR troop and missile force moves that caused the US to put their missle subs and bases on high alert.

                    IF that had happened the US would have attacked the USSR forces in accordance with our treaties with Israel and........

                    POOF!!

                    which would have done nobody any good

                    This is the one problem I have with Israel; it sometimes acts as if it's operating in a bottle where all its actions only have local effects. It isn't. This last incursion into Arafat's HQ is a perfect example.

                    Really bad timing given our efforts in the UN to get a new resolution vs. Iraq.

                    Dr. Mordrid
                    Last edited by Dr Mordrid; 9 October 2002, 07:27.
                    Dr. Mordrid
                    ----------------------------
                    An elephant is a mouse built to government specifications.

                    I carry a gun because I can't throw a rock 1,250 fps

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Doc,

                      I understand it all very well. But try looking at it the other way around: When Israel was attacked, the world sat back and prepared to watch the "show" and see how it unfolds. Once Israel got on the offensive, Russia stood up and said "Stop the show or else !".
                      Why nobody got up at the beginning of the show ?

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Dogbert

                        When you start talking nuclear threats - which the planet was facing - its NOT the same as a small scale war.

                        Those guys were BIGTIME allies of the USSR. They were the significant influence in the ME for the USSR. The USSR couldnt afford to loose them. Period. Perhaps the US could afford to loose Israel? I dont know.

                        Global politics....

                        RedRed
                        Dont just swallow the blue pill.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Why? You're not so naive. It's a poker game.

                          Like the game now. GWB&Co, trying to improve their hand back home, think they've got a patsy in Saddam, say he's got cards up his sleeve. They've fallen for Saddam's bait, hook line and sinker. Saddam says search me. Bad guy becomes good guy, "good guy" becomes bad guy. The rest is about the anti and the pot.

                          Tenet has had a walk around the table and tries to tell Georgie he's got a bad hand. Georgie and crew are so desparate to win the pot for their anti in the game back home, they don't listen. Tenet lets the cat out of the bag and the UN says ok, everybody strip and the pot stays on the table for the next deal. Georgie can't reach for his colt cause his bullets are in the pot back home.

                          Five card stud, jokers wild... same game..
                          How can you possibly take anything seriously?
                          Who cares?

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