Some say we shouldn't have the death penalty.

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by TDB
well, Im against death penalty, because I believe everyone should have the right(or atleast the possibility) to learn from their mistakes.

however, this is based on the belief, that every human has a little "goodness" inside them, and deep inside really wants to be a part of society.
these horrible crimes sometimes makes it really hard to believe in that.

What about all the human goodness that these evil scumbags have destroyed? What about all the human goodness that they could destroy if your thoroughly misplaced compassion allows them to kill again? And taking my tax dollars to keep them alive in prison for life is ROBBING the innocent. This is why I think liberal death penalty opponents are completely whacked in the head. They promote murder and robbery of the innocent in the name of compassion for brutal monsters. They don't have enough sense or forethought to have any compassion for future potential victims. Remember Willie Horton? No? That was a murderer a liberal do-gooder governor named Mike Dukakis let out of prison. Of course he killed again, which made said liberal wuss an accessory to murder, and was a major factor in his losing a presidential election.

Here's a solution for you.. put all the killers in a room together with knives and tell them that the last one alive gets to spend life in prison.. how's that? You dainty liberal flowers will not have to worry about taking the responsibility for killing upon your own delicate souls.

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by The PIT
My only problem with the death penalty is that fairly often the Police cock up or make the evidance fit due media going over board and creating mass hysteria. Until they get it right I would find it hard to say yes.

This is my only problem with it too. Giving the accused a good lawyer usually means a killer goes free, though. Look at the OJ case.

What we all need is better judgement, of which there is just too little among the public at large. This is why I oppose marijuana and its legalization. It more or less turns people into moral zombies, and I believe it has a great deal to do with society being as f***ed up as it is now.

[Joel]

Rehabilitation. Errr.... need I say more? OK prison is hardly the answer for this one. But death?.

Only works if the person in question wants to be rehabilitated. Forced rehabilitation never works. Prison is suppose to be meant to punish so it should be made a living hell for these people so if they ever do get out they will hopefully think twice about doing something that can send them back. In some cases IMO death is the only option. Some of these people are like wild animals. Once they get that taste of blood there is nothing that can be done. Most people wouldn't think twice about putting a dog to sleep that mauls a child to death but wants to have compassion for one of the most rueless killers there is, man. Some will say but a dog can't really think about what he is doing or has done. Well that is part of my point.

Joel

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Joel


Only works if the person in question wants to be rehabilitated. Forced rehabilitation never works. Prison is suppose to be meant to punish so it should be made a living hell for these people so if they ever do get out they will hopefully think twice about doing something that can send them back. In some cases IMO death is the only option. Some of these people are like wild animals. Once they get that taste of blood there is nothing that can be done. Most people wouldn't think twice about putting a dog to sleep that mauls a child to death but wants to have compassion for one of the most rueless killers there is, man. Some will say but a dog can't really think about what he is doing or has done. Well that is part of my point.

Joel

And why is it that so many people want to excuse the mentally retarded from execution? Is this really less humane than euthanizing that killer dog? The "retarded" person was bright enough to kill, and will certainly pose a great danger if he is ever released, so why keep him alive just for being stupider than average? This is some of the moronic poor judgement I am talking about.

[goldstein]

Do you trust the Government to be right 100% of the time when carrying out justice?

I don't and that is why the death penalty is fundamentally unsound. The gov't is made up of imperfect humans and there will always be mistakes somewhere. It is arrogant to assume that perfect justice exists in man's imperfect world, so the extreme penalty of death leaves ABSOLUTELY ZERO room for error. You can site inflamatory media stories about worse than scum criminals doing acts so heinous that it makes people boil; but those articles are often written for the purpose of selling stories as well.

Besides, after you kill the wrong person you can't really say sorry, I take it back. And therin lies the problem with death. There more than enough examples around the world showing how people were convicted for a crime they did not commit - and would have been killed by the state if the death penalty was in effect.

In the final analysis, we'd be better off as a society if we turned down the level of bloodlust in us - even in the face of snipers. Seeking bloody revenge is not exactly the best role model for future generations, I really hope one day we can evolve past that ugly primitive urge, and replace it with a more worthy and dignified substitute.

[goldstein]

KvH



..."why keep him alive just for being stupider than average?"

That was the same argument Adolf Hitler used to justify the concentration camps. "They" are not as good as us so they do not deserve life.

I hope you were joking, because one day someone "better, smarter" than you may judge you as being inferior and ship you off on the back of a truck.

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by goldstein
KvH



..."why keep him alive just for being stupider than average?"

That was the same argument Adolf Hitler used to justify the concentration camps. "They" are not as good as us so they do not deserve life.

I hope you were joking, because one day someone "better, smarter" than you may judge you as being inferior and ship you off on the back of a truck.

Don't think comparing something to what Hitler did automatically makes you right. That's the mark of a lazy intellect.

Do you think Jews should also be especially exempted from the death penalty for murder, since they were one of the particular groups persecuted by Hitler?

[Byock]

Uh huh, Jails and rehabilitation are the perfect answer. That is why people who are released into society, never repeat their crimes.


Look at the repeat offender percentages, and justify this to me please....

[goldstein]

KvH

I'm alarmed you have no problem that your arguments and logic are similar to those of Hitler. I suppose Roosevelt, Lincoln and Gandhi are not your idea of role models either.

I suggest you go on a speaking tour with your viewpoint and see how people react to you in person. You might be surprised how quick a mob forms.

[efty]

I believe killing is fundamentally wrong. Yes some people deserve to die, deserve a slow painful death however this is just a temporary cure. I don't think a mass murder or even lets say a person who kills in a moments rage thinks about the death penalty. Killing them will not achieve anything.

[KvHagedorn]

You aren't alarmed. You are too wrapped up in terrorizing people against any opinions you might hold by throwing a "big lie" into the mix about Hitler. What typical liberal bullshit. Why don't you go **** yourself and quit trying to defame others? Are Roosevelt, Lincoln and Gandhi the only politically correct role models in your opinion? Well guess who is being "Hitler" now? I will not have your opinions forced down my throat nor will I allow you to force them down others' by comparing anything you do not agree with as something Hitler would do. I find your rhetoric very offensive not only personally but intellectually as well.

[The PIT]

Mentally ill people shouldn't face the death penalty. Most of the time is reconised that they have the problem but either the doctor misjudges the case or dogooders make sure they stay in society. Either way it ain't their fault.
Note I lived next door to a mental ill patient and he got no help at all from doctors or the so called care in community. Luckily he was n't violent but if he was there would have been a victimn despite us telling the doctors and services what the situtation was.
Just rebooting the machine.

[Admiral]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
You aren't alarmed. You are too wrapped up in terrorizing people against any opinions you might hold by throwing a "big lie" into the mix about Hitler. What typical liberal bullshit. Why don't you go **** yourself and quit trying to defame others? Are Roosevelt, Lincoln and Gandhi the only politically correct role models in your opinion? Well guess who is being "Hitler" now? I will not have your opinions forced down my throat nor will I allow you to force them down others' by comparing anything you do not agree with as something Hitler would do. I find your rhetoric very offensive not only personally but intellectually as well.

Why is it that only the radicals start with the personal attacks when they don't like what others post
And might I remind you that it was you who started defaming others by branding all liberals for what Dukakis did.

[The PIT]

Question Kvh are you referring to people of low IQ, or to people that do stupid things becuase they can't been arsed to think what possible ramifications of their actions could be??

[KvHagedorn]

If I branded all liberals as mindless again, I am sorry. But I found what Dukakis did absolutely irresponsible, and such irresponsibility comes inevitably from listening to people like Goldstein who think with their emotions and try to govern from this standpoint. I do not want to execute all mentally retarded people like the Nazis did, and that is the sort of personal attack I will not stand for.

But why should a lower IQ score make someone exempt from the same punishment anyone else would get for the same crime? If a truly severely retarded person killed someone by accident, because he didn't know his own strength or what he was doing that's very sad, and perhaps in some cases leniency should be shown. But in no circumstances should society be exposed to this danger again.

If someone is mentally ill, the time to help them is BEFORE they kill, and yes, REAL mental illness might be a reason to not seek the death penalty, but only in rare instances. Would you think Charles Manson or Hannibal Lecter or a falsely "insane" person like the murderer in "15 Minutes" should be particularly spared? They are more dangerous than any other type of killer... why would you give them special leniency? It's completely irresponsible.