Some say we shouldn't have the death penalty.

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by thop
did you really watch dancer in the dark kvh?

Yes, I did.. (Björk is too cute not to watch)

.. suffice it to say it was ridiculously unrealistic. The plot is full of holes and assumes the audience has a thoroughly bleedy heart but absolutely no brain cells. I was most incredulous at her boyfriend who said he loved her but wouldn't sell his truck to pay the lawyer? And if I had been that lawyer, I would have not been able to look at this sweet, poor blind girl and refused to save her over a couple thousand dollars, especially since I had already done the research. Chivalry is not dead (unless liberals and feminists succeed in destroying the notion completely.)

[Admiral]

-I agree that the death penalty isn't much of a deterrent. Do you think it is more of a deterrent to treat criminals the way they are treated in "civilized European" countries? In Holland, you can murder someone and spend perhaps 4 or 5 years in one of their country club "prisons," where the state buys you 4 magazine subscriptions, gives you a private cell with a TV, recreational facilities, and nutritious meals. Then they let you out! (Oh, that's no good.. I need to go kill someone else so I can get some more of this "civilized" treatment!) You wouldn't agree to the type of brutality that would be a real deterrent, so let's forget about that,..

Yet again you judge others as if the world was made in your image not trying to put yourself in their shoes with their thinking but with yours.
The Dutch strike me as decent, common sensed people that don't need law after law telling them they shouldn't do that and that.
Do they have such a high crime rate or soo many brutal murders that they would need to toughen the laws ?
They're also at an evolutionary stage when they could adopt euthanasia without fear of too many abuses.
Of course such attitudes wouldn't fit well in America but they seems to suit Holland.
Different people, different cultures, different characters.
If you despise people because they're different too much and too often they might turn the despise back.

[Dr Mordrid]

If KvHagedorn's representation of how Holland's "justice" system treats murderers is accurate then they are indeed brutally insensitive to the victims and their relatives and are morally vacuous.

If someone supported such a system here they couldn't be elected dog catcher.

If an already elected official proposed such a system here there would be a huge outcry and most likely a recall (removal from office accomplished by passing petitions & a special election).

Dr. Mordrid

[KvHagedorn]

Yet again you judge others as if the world was made in your image not trying to put yourself in their shoes with their thinking but with yours.
The Dutch strike me as decent, common sensed people that don't need law after law telling them they shouldn't do that and that.
Do they have such a high crime rate or soo many brutal murders that they would need to toughen the laws ?
They're also at an evolutionary stage when they could adopt euthanasia without fear of too many abuses.
Of course such attitudes wouldn't fit well in America but they seems to suit Holland.
Different people, different cultures, different characters.
If you despise people because they're different too much and too often they might turn the despise back.

If you want to despise me because I do not march in lockstep to your liberal agenda, go right ahead. I don't despise you back, at least not personally.. your beliefs, though, are quite irresponsible, and I will reserve the right to despise those.

The rest of your post is such nonsense I couldn't possibly comment, other than to be "Appalled that you think some race is more "evolved" than another so that they have some greater wisdom about who deserves to be euthanised. That is exactly what Hitler thought!"

Doc, I don't know if the four years is accurate, but I was told all this by a Dutch friend of mine. He doesn't really want to move back there because of how much things have changed since he was a "kid" (he's only 23 now ) He says gangs of Turks roam around looking for people to beat up and if you fight back it's a hate crime.

[DentyCracker]

I say kill the ****ers

[mdhome]

Here in the UK, the majority of people do not believe in the death sentence, even after the killing of those 2 young girls a few months ago, public opinion was definately a NO. There has also been enough proven evidence of police corruption where if we would have had a death sentence innocent people could have died.

There is also a growing tide of opinion in the UK in favour of Euthanasia. It is seen that under some extreme circumstances, where people have a desire to end their life, then they should. I am still open on this one.

Also, before we criticise the Dutch for their policies, we should remember they are one of the the safest and most enligtened societies to live in. Sorry KV, but it really doesnt make sense for an American to diss the Dutch in this way.

Regards MD

[Greebe]

KvH he's not saying "Evolved" like Hitler... Shame on you for thinking such. He's refering to being Socially Evolved.

How can a society like ours hold hurt/sickly animals to a higher level than our own family members scavaged with a deadly desease / on their bed whom wish the end?

[KvHagedorn]

Ahh so they are more socially evolved now that they are thoroughly left wing in their thinking? I see. Please indoctrinate me some more, this is fascinating.

[The PIT]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
but I was told all this by a Dutch friend of mine. He doesn't really want to move back there because of how much things have changed since he was a "kid" (he's only 23 now ) He says gangs of Turks roam around looking for people to beat up and if you fight back it's a hate crime.

Sad how do gooders have made race crimes a white only problem.

[Admiral]

Ahh so they are more socially evolved now that they are thoroughly left wing in their thinking? I see. Please indoctrinate me some more, this is fascinating.

It's no use, because I can't, you're different
I had to learn that the hard way, imagine me having a father like Gurm and all the sparks that came out of it.
For what it matters I don't despise you, I'm not happy with radical attitudes when they're not always called for.

What is happening now with the Dutch and the Scandinavian countryes is the effect of too much liberalism forgeting not all people are like them. They were gullible and took in too much imigrants and it is these imigrants that seem to be the problem not your "old" citizens. Some of them are waking up and electing more conservative governments.
If we look at the Danish now there is a small paradox there. A conservative government with a tougher attitude on imigration yet pro EU enlargement. You can say ya but the path was already set and because they hold the EU presidency now they're forced to follow it.
I belive it's more like they try to solve the imigration problem by solving the cause, helping the poor countryes from which these imigrants come so that there won't be such a desire to flee.
Will it work ? I'm a bit skeptical, it's a long term process and many things can go wrong, but it's worth a shot.

I'm no budhist monk and don't belive that you should turn the other cheek when you're hit, I belive in swift pragmatic radical attitude when it's called for yet I also don't feel the urge to go out and scream burn the witch.