From a US Marine in Bosina

[ElDonAntonio]

Originally posted by Jammrock
*sniff* *sniff* ... I smell a lock approaching this thread.

why? discussing such a topic is important and interesting, as long as it's done with respect. So far, everything's pretty much under control.

[Joel]

discussing such a topic is important and interesting, as long as it's done with respect.

That's true. But most of the ppl here know where these things can head when ppl start saying that the only reason the US is doing any of this is because of the oil and then want to drag Israel into the discussion also.

The US already control the oil pipelines in Afghanistan and in Serbia, and now they'll try to get the oil from Iraq and Saudi Arabia. What's next? probably Iran (for the next elections). This way, you cut off Asia from Europe and from Africa.

After that, what will justifiy the american military budget? heck, let's connect Israel to all that to give them the oil. 3 ways to get there: Syria and Lebanon, or Jordany, or Saudi Arabia. It'll probably be Saudi Arabia, you get in that deal even more oil. The media is already starting the propaganda on the royal family.

As for the influence of war on the economy, it might have a negative impact in the beginning, but in the long run (not that long, 1-2 years), it's always beneficial. Espescially when you take over the no1 oil supplier in the world.

Joel

[cjolley]

The US should not invade Iraq because invading Saudi Arabia would be bad?

I don't get the connection.
chuck

PS. I think we should just build a great big honkin permanent military base out in the Iraqi desert and name it Camp Osama.

[Jessterw]

Hey let's just get it out of the way, the US wants to control the world and if you stand in our way then we're gonna kick your arse!

That seems to be what everyone wants us to admit. We're not a perfect nation, neither is your's. We all just need to get off our pedestals and think about things a little better. I'm not going to comment on whether the US is "right" or not (that's a pretty subjective question anyhow), however anyone that believes that Saddam is not a threat to his own people and to the rest of the world, really needs to wake up.

One more comment, what almost everyone fails to realize is that we (as a whole, in every nation) aren't privy to alot of the information.

[Joel]

One more comment, what almost everyone fails to realize is that we (as a whole, in every nation) aren't privy to alot of the information.

Plus when it comes to the news media we are only going to get just the information that best serves their political agenda. Unfortunately today the news media is more into making the news than just reporting it. And they don't always fairly tell both sides of the story even if they do know. But then again most of us with a good head on our shoulders already knows that.

Joel

[Novdid]

Agreed Joel. And you have to keep in mind that the US learned a lesson regarding media in Vietnam. No more revealing pics from warzones anymore!

[lurqa_MU]

A good reason to start a war?

Reasons to start a war:

1. They did bad stuff in the past
2. The history records their land as ours
3. Their leadership is evil
4. Must be done to prevent disaster

Pick any, and add as many as you like.

I have yet to see one that justifies the barbarism.


There is no doubt in my mind that Mr.Bush' primary motivation is to achieve more popularity internally in USA by blowing the nationalistic whistle.

I am not saying that there is no problem in the middle east, but other, much more humane, solutions exist.


The most elegant solution to many of the problems that Mr.Bush' face these days would be to set up a minimum IQ requirement for any future presidents of the USA.

Regards,
lurqa

[Dr Mordrid]

You don't see one that justifies the the "barbarism" or war? They have a name for those who propose a belief system that could come to that conclusion: endangered species.

I would classify it as "preventive medicine". No different than cancer surgery on a living organism. It had to be done in WW-II and it's time for it again.

AFAIK the only "humane" soution would be one that involved the mass suicide of the Baathist party members, including their leaders. Short of that you have to do it the hard way, as is typical of entrenched despots and murdurous scum of their type.

Also, for your obviously uninformed information on GWB:

there is no official IQ data recorded for GWB, however on the SAT (Scholastic Aptitude Test) he scored 1206 out of a possible 1355, which puts him in the top 16% of prospective college students.

If this 84th percentile performance were applied to a generalized IQ test it would mean a score of 115, or 15 points above "average" and statistically indistinguisable from John F. Kennedy's IQ of 119.

Also: JFK graduated 65th out of a high school class of 110.

You should also take into account that typically ones IQ rises as a post-graduate and after some real-life experience and maturity sharpens ones mind and focus.

This would bode well for GWB since besides graduating from Yale he also has an MBA from Harvard.

Dr. Mordrid

[KvHagedorn]

SAT scores do not neccessarily parallel IQ scores.. scholastic aptitude is really what they measure, and that is a function of the quality of schools which the student attended. My own poor background with country-f**k teachers and coaches teaching my classes resulted in a SAT score of 1170.. which was 110 above that of my class valedictorian. I've taken several IQ tests, and the lowest I ever scored on one was 141, the highest 165. Luckily, I read a lot.. though that didn't help my math skills, which were woefully inadequate when I got to college.

I don't think that great intelligence is as necessary a thing for a president to have as great wisdom, though.

[Dr Mordrid]

SAT has an approximately .80+ corellation to general intelligence, which is mainly what an IQ test is designed to measure. This makes it a pretty good indicator at least worthy of comparisons such as these.

Dr. Mordrid

[KvHagedorn]

The highest SAT score is actually 1600, btw.. I heard of several people where I went to college (U. of Chicago) who had an 800 in both math and verbal, and others elsewhere.

[lurqa_MU]

...IQ and all...

The IQ bit was meant as a provocation
- and apparently we don't have any Bush zealions online....


But seriously: if the man (Saddam) is a problem, then remove the man. The other stuff is unnecessary.

Regards,
lurqa

[KvHagedorn]

Personally, I think the problem we have with Saddam is his support for terrorists. There is not much of a direct threat of him invading somebody at the moment, but if he gave al-qaeda the refined anthrax powder that was used in random mail attacks, that proves that he is a threat in an indirect but more dangerous way.. if he passes other biologicals or nukes to al-qaeda which wind up killing Westerners, that is something we cannot ignore.

[lurqa_MU]

Didn't notice this one:

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
Also, for your obviously uninformed information on GWB:

there is no official IQ data recorded for GWB, however on the SAT (Scholastic Aptitude Test) he scored 1206 out of a possible 1355, which puts him in the top 16% of prospective college students.
.... bla bla...
This would bode well for GWB since besides graduating from Yale he also has an MBA from Harvard.

I am not judging GWB by his school records.

I am judging by his behaviour.


I am not going into a discussion about GWBs IQ and general popularity internationally - you are probably not going to overthrow your government anyway.


My point remain that 'war on Iraq' does not equal 'getting rid of Saddam'. War has many other effects, some of them quite unfortunate for the involved parties. And it is quite possible that these parties were never interested in being involved at all.

Regards,
lurqa

[cjolley]

Doc, where did you get 1355 as the top SAT score?
I thought it was 2 X 800 = 1600.
A kid at my highschool made a 1600!
chuck

PS I think Bush is an idiot and that Sadam is a danger to the US (for the reasons that KvH gave).
I don't see how the two ideas are correlated at all.