L33t Speak leaves teacher baffled

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Wulfman
once upon a time, before people could write fast on typewriters/computers, someone invented shorthand. a lot of people couldn't read it.

now, people don't have the time to type long texts on mobile phones, so they adapt their writing skills.

once technology will allow "better suited" mobiles...

mfg
wulfman

Shorthand was not meant to be read. It was invented to be written and then translated later. It is always faster to read something than it is to write it. Bullshit like l33tspeak might be easier for the writer, but it's hell for someone to read it. I'm not surprised that CWOT (complete waste of time) is a "standard?" abbreviation for this slacker-speak. It reeks of spoiled brat.

In the end, communication is the goal. That's why we have standard English (or German, or whatever.) These languages have evolved over many many years to enable people to communicate ideas in effective and subtle ways. Now, I know many of you are "math" people, whose language skills were never their strongest suit, but you have to have respect for language, even if you aren't Mark Twain. What would you think of someone if they said (or obviously thought) that electrical engineering or computer science was a bunch of worthless bullshit? Wouldn't you lose respect for them? Well language isn't bullshit either. It's how great ideas are proliferated, and how they have been proliferated for centuries. It is a great treasure of our culture, and you'd damned well better show some respect for it.

[The PIT]

Originally posted by Gurm
I like the Old School.

Lecter, stop to think about this - there's a REASON that 12 years of school are mandatory. There's almost nothing in there that you don't really need.

History? You need it. Sadly, nobody knows history. The recent madness in TSB (hence our lovely home here in the Lounge) has taught us that 90% of Europeans know ZERO about history. The number, sadly, is closer to 95% in America.

Got by quite well without it. Although sometimes I think it would be useful to broaden my horizons. It would be useful at quizzes. When I was at school unemployment was just going through the roof employers generally wanted maths, physics, english. I dropped History as well as Music and Eng Lit to concentrate on those. Note I wasn't very good at maths

Math? You need it. You really really need it. I swear they need to make calculus compulsory. If you can't do calculus, you can't have a job. Honestly. I'm going a little overboard because I'm math biased. But honestly you NEED math. As much as you can get. Especially for a career in computers or engineering.

Yup but then saying that I've only used it at University or helping one of my nephews out with his homework never since and it's never come into my job with computing. But at least I've done it.

Sciences? You need 'em. Do you need to remember every little thing about Biology? No, of course not. But it's good to have learned it in the first place. You know how life is categorized. People who don't study Biology end up lumped in with the idiots who don't know the definition of "life" and shoot abortion doctors.

Yup

Languages? You NEED these. I'm sorry I never got fluent in Russian... but I still recall most of my Latin and Greek. We're the only country in the world where 95+% of our population only speaks one language (poorly).

Well the teaching of langs at our schools was useless totally


English? Well, we OBVIOUSLY need that. I read your post. No offense, but you border on illiterate, man.

- Gurm

[Sasq]

KvH, language is fluid, it evolves. there is no 'set english', never was, never will be. Times change, so does both the written and spoken language.

[The PIT]

Originally posted by Sasq
KvH, language is fluid, it evolves. there is no 'set english', never was, never will be. Times change, so does both the written and spoken language.

This what English Lit tries to do. It tries to keep English to a set of predefined rules. All languages evolve it's just got to be accepted.

Wulfman I doubt a typist would send shorthand in for a English assey. It was some smart arsed kid trying to be clever.

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Gurm

Math? You need it. You really really need it. I swear they need to make calculus compulsory. If you can't do calculus, you can't have a job. Honestly. I'm going a little overboard because I'm math biased. But honestly you NEED math. As much as you can get. Especially for a career in computers or engineering.

You are math biased. You don't need calculus to get a job. Lawyers manage to get by without needing any math at all. They use language to make their living. So does everyone.

Let me tell you something. I have a very shitty math background. Do you know why? Because none of the math teachers I ever had could COMMUNICATE worth a shit. Alright, I take that back.. there was one who could. But I never really got fluent in the formulaic language because those people couldn't speak the English language. Honestly. Half of my college math teachers were foreigners who would spend the whole class writing formulas on the board. They couldn't teach worth a DAMN, and I'm still pissed off about it. Some moron allowed them to teach because they knew their subject, but they couldn't speak English, so what use are they as a teacher?

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Gurm
KvH,

Err... you're getting a little too Freudian there.

And frankly, Freud's work was very valid - for repressed Austrian guys, around middle age, with a fixation on their own mother and closeted homosexual desires. For everyone else, it was bullshit.

- Gurm

Stop being so damned flip all the time. I am not being Freudian. Some of my ideas might intersect his, but they are my ideas, not Freud's! I did not read his work and somehow derive my thought patterns from his rantings. These ideas come from my own observations about life after having lived for awhile in this very real, very cruel world.

[The PIT]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
Some moron allowed them to teach because they knew their subject, but they couldn't speak English, so what use are they as a teacher?

Yes it's the employees who employed the person and didn't put them on a English course who are the Morons. No doubt due to fear of being called pc. Yes this is a growing problem and does need to be addressed.

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Sasq
KvH, language is fluid, it evolves. there is no 'set english', never was, never will be. Times change, so does both the written and spoken language.

Well, if I was to blow up your house, and to your anger answered: "Matter is fluid, it evolves." Would you not throttle me there and then? There have to be rules for English, and there are. If not was follow them I could not you saying understand?

Look, times may change, but it is up to US to make sure they do not change for the worse. L33tspeak is the embodiment of its purveyors: disrespectful brats who never had to work a day in their lives, or if they did, worked in a very insulated environment which is thoroughly divorced from reality.

[lecter]

Here we go....History class was a joke in high-school, however, that did not stop me from reading up on it because many topics were indeed interesting. I do need math, but practically all the math I know I learned in 2 years, one with an uncle, and one with a teacher that actually knew not only what, but HOW to teach. It was enough to get me good grades in school and on my graduation exams and to guide me so far in the first semester of university. As for the people who end up shooting abortion doctors, I don't believe it's the lack of biology knowledge that prompts them to do that, it's sheer lunacy and the good ol' gun culture you people breed.

Quite frankly I'm not in the mood for flaming...if you think I'm bordering on illiterate, fine, I don't especially care for what goes on through the head of some guy named Jason in Pennsylvania (or wherever u said u lived).

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by The PIT
Yes it's the employees who employed the person and didn't put them on a English course who are the Morons. No doubt due to fear of being called pc. Yes this is a growing problem and does need to be addressed.

Well, what I should have said was that their grasp of English was severely limited, just like my grasp of calculus was severely limited when I left their class.

[Wulfman]

let's start:

In the end, communication is the goal.

with this sentence, everything is said. the language does not matter - the information must arrive. I communicate with english (although slightly lazy english without much capitals) here, german elsewhere. others use l33tspeak, shorthand, sign-language or braille. all are interpretations of reality or ideas.

Wulfman I doubt a typist would send shorthand in for a English assey. It was some smart arsed kid trying to be clever.

you have to choose where the different types are appropriate. I'm sure the pupil has learned what he shouldn't use in school. I just don't understand why this is causing such a stir. despite that - what kind of essay should that be? 2 sentences?

Shorthand was not meant to be read. It was invented to be written and then translated later. It is always faster to read something than it is to write it. Bullshit like l33tspeak might be easier for the writer, but it's hell for someone to read it.

I can't read shorthand. I know people who can, I know people (e.g. my mother) who can nearly read shorthand fluently. hell for someone to read? not if you are used to it.

But I never really got fluent in the formulaic language because those people couldn't speak the English language.

imho they don't need to. the mathematic language is quite clear. I just gone through the first stages of maths at the uni (diff equation, statistic) and was looking at blackboards full of formulas for hours. and usually ended up with a bunch of books. normal language is not needed / useful as it cannot really describe the ideas of higher mathematics apropriate, that's why the mathematic language was invented. guess that's why higher dimensions can be "calculated" but not envisaged.

mfg
wulfman

PS.: I'm not a maths type either, I like "normal" written language.

[The PIT]

Originally posted by Wulfman
you have to choose where the different types are appropriate. I'm sure the pupil has learned what he shouldn't use in school. I just don't understand why this is causing such a stir. despite that - what kind of essay should that be? 2 sentences?

I don't think it is causing much of stir. The pupil should have got zero marks for it and thats that.

imho they don't need to. the mathematic language is quite clear. I just gone through the first stages of maths at the uni (diff equation, statistic) and was looking at blackboards full of formulas for hours. and usually ended up with a bunch of books. normal language is not needed / useful as it cannot really describe the ideas of higher mathematics apropriate, that's why the mathematic language was invented. guess that's why higher dimensions can be "calculated" but not envisaged.

Sorry if the person can't explain whats the object of the excercise is, clearly in the persons native language, they ain't going to learn it. Sometimes one has been taken through the steps before the penny drops.

mfg
wulfman

PS.: I'm not a maths type either, I like "normal" written language.

[Wulfman]

I don't think it is causing much of stir.

let's see other news published by reuters today:

Airport Bomb in Philippines Kills 18, Wounds 100
U.S. May Have Taken Sept. 11 Suspect to Afghanistan

and:

British Girl Baffles Teacher with SMS Essay



mfg
wulfman

[The PIT]

Originally posted by Wulfman
let's see other news published by reuters today:

Airport Bomb in Philippines Kills 18, Wounds 100
U.S. May Have Taken Sept. 11 Suspect to Afghanistan

and:

British Girl Baffles Teacher with SMS Essay



mfg
wulfman

What does it say on the BBC.

Inspectors no deterant to Iraq.
Milburn defends Hospital plans.
Hussain quits one day job.
Russia to veto.
Soddem reckons he whip US ass.
US considers plan B for Iraq in case the above is true.

Nothing about some British lass. Guess BBC got better priorities.

[GNEP]

Reuters just catches everything. "ODD F9" is the channel to watch for the amusing stories if you have a Kobra terminal to hand...